Replacement pickups?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:15 pm

I still have 100% of my hearing because I quit bands that play too loud ... my last band used in-ear monitors so the actual sound going into the ears of a stage musician is actually quite low ... but the volume on the dance floor is loud enough for all the drunks to party ... and if the club has a substandard pa bring your own ...

When Geddy tours he does not have any bass amp ...

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:20 pm

We always bring our own PA & our own sound man. There's really no other way to insure your band sounds as good as it can.
I've heard some fantastic bands who sounded like they were 5 drunks playing underwater due to poor gear & a no-talent sound guy encountered at a benefit jam.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:29 pm

If you play through small amps and keep the stage volume down you will actually be able to hear what all of the other musicians are playing and then the band will be tighter ... I have played with undisciplined bands with out of control volume levels and I had to guess where the other players were in the song because I couldn't hear ... that makes for mistakes ... sure your instrument sounds good when you stand in front of your amp ... but how does it sound to the audience? that is what matters ... if a band drowns out my 4 10s then I don't want to play with them ... I have done outdoor gigs with 4 10s and because of the subs in the pa there were plenty of chest thumping lows ...

rhampshire · Post by **rhampshire** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:34 pm

That's all well and good, but how do you tell a rock drummer to turn down?

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:36 pm

Sack him...

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:43 pm

Any time I've played with others who only have one volume level, those were the least fun of any jams, or whatever.
It's all about control & dynamics. People in the audience haven't a clue as to what that means, but they sure know when you're NOT doing it!

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:46 pm

BTW, probably the best technical drummer in my area is also the LOUDEST drummer in the area, & he's now wearing earplugs since he's damaged HIS OWN hearing significantly!
Fantastic drummer, but very little dynamics.

thinneckrick · Post by **thinneckrick** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:51 pm

I have tryed several modern pods and fancy lad amps and i gotta tell ya they are transparent . They sound great when your by yourself but they get lost on the live stage . I have a bass pod in my practice rig that even has an SVT setting lol.My other rig is an old 1979 Lab series L2 stack . Its the only solid state amp that sounds like an SVT. I have an L4 head as well . They are both killer bass amps.it just seems to me that the vintage stuff (guitars included)Sounds the best.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:39 pm

I played with a drummer who could drown out full marshall stacks ... he was insane ... I quit that band ... some drummers just hit too hard ... the only solution for a drummer who hits too hard is digital drums ... or a drum shield ... but it is a basic lack of discipline ... some drummers play from the shoulders ... the good ones play from wrists ... if you mike every single drum then you don't have to beat the tar out of them ... duh!!!

I only have one set of ears ... I will not blow them out because of lame undisciplined musicians ... sometimes when a band gets too loud I will quit playing and plug my ears ... or I quit playing and look bored ...

if the whole band gets too loud then it just becomes noise ... like a jet plane taking off ...

life is too short to waste it playing in a loose and loud band ...

The pod is a great tool but the svt setting does not sound like an svt ... the pod is not an end in itself ... it is a tool to help shape tone and to get the sound of high gain and distortion without turning way up ...

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:51 pm

I've never played through a Pod. I'm sure that they sound quite good, but, frankly, I'm *very* wary of digital effects and modeling and such . . . I tried a Line 6 amp that sounded like absolutely [expletive] no matter what I did with it, and I tried altering my style significantly. Digital effects pedals have either been great (e.g. Digitech Distortion) or complete trash (e.g. Digitech Compression), and I'm not hot on spending money on anything that has such a high suck-to-success ratio.

At the same time, I don't think I'd ever want to have to lug around humongous stacks, like 8x10's or anything like that. Obviously, right now, I don't need anything more than my combo, but I really never wanna buy something so huge . . . I just don't think I could take the hassle of it. For recording, I just plug direct through the amp section of the combo, and because the total times I've played live (not including practice and/or jamming around) have been exactly zero, I see no need to get something so powerful.

Dunno . . . it's a dilemma . . . I don't want to buy digital because it usually ruins my sound, but if I go analog, I can't go too huge or it'll be too impractical. I think the solution is to stick with my combo until I need more power, and then find a nice 2x10 and amp head . . .

rhampshire · Post by **rhampshire** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:41 am

Ok Jeff, so every band that plays loudly is loose, lame, and undisciplined... LOL!

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:00 am

I once played in a metal band that was so loud onstage/ in rehearsal I could hardly tell what songs we were playing. I really don't like playing very loud though, never have, and I don't generally like playing with loud drummers at all. Volume is what the PA is for, if you need to have it...I guess that sounds weird considering I'm a huge Motorhead fan! You really do only get one set of ears though, and I really don't like earplugs, so its low low low for me I'm afraid.....which is also why I've never needed a huge rig. Our drummer is quiet as a mouse, but mic-ed up who'd know?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:09 am

actually too loud is undisciplined which leads to being loose which makes a band lame ...

rhampshire · Post by **rhampshire** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:45 am

Trust me jeff, we're anything but "loose". We have plenty of discipline, we're just loud. We play original music and we're not a bar cover band for drunks to dance to. The people that come to our shows want it loud, loud, loud... don't be so closed-minded!

gshadoan · Post by **gshadoan** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:37 am

Here's my take on stage volume. When I'm setting up a mix, I cue the channel, get the level to zero, VCA set to nominal, then push the channel fader up. If the instrument in question, volume does not go up signeficantly at zero on the channel strip(double-+3db) I ask the player to turn down. Simple formula. I should be able to hear the inst off stage (ussually but not always) then when fader at zero still be able to use it and push it up to -10 or so for leads. Usually players will comply and the mix goes well. for bass players, fader at zero for most of the set is where I set it. If they are too loud on stage, I will either ask and get volume turned down, or remove them from the mix entirely, unless Im recording. Then I try to match it, but it will suck on tape

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As to drummers, in a 1000 + seat room, it really doesnt matter how a drummer plays. Hard as he wants is fine. I still have to mic each drum, and mix them much louder than they are coming to me at the mix postion off stage. Having said that, in smaller situations, drummer dynamics becomes far more important. As a band member, I will not play with a drummer that does not have good dynamics in his toolkit. It doesn't mean that the drummer is lame that he plays really loud all the time, just inappropriate for smaller situations. If a small club band or band member cannot play in a small club, use dynamics, and not avoid hurting customers hearing, then I think they are stupid. Lame whatever. The who probably haven't played a small club in many years, so loud on stage is fine. In arena situations, stage monitors do far more for these type's of acts then on stage amps anyway. The exception on this would be WAY too loud gtr amps. They are really annoying for sound guys, and the single most common complaint for tour engineers I work with. (well that and singers who whisper) If you cannot get the vocals up above the stage volume your done. Vocals are always the hardest to get where they need to be. Drums are the easiest.
In a small club with reflective surfaces, drums are the hardest, if the drummer cannot do anything but pound like an ape. It negates all technical expertise IMHO. I cannot MAKE a muso play well, just try and help them sound good.
I remember the Alice Cooper show. FOH guy named Randy. Great guy. I mixed the opener. One of the best mixes I have ever done. When I asked for things, they didn't question me, they just did it. (this is what all good players DO) I remeber Randy looking at me with a strange look on his face during thier set. I asked him whats up. He said "Man I wish I had THIER stage volume" When Alice played I understood what he ment. The SL gtr player was way too loud, and he had a tough night keeping Alice up in the mix. YMMV.
The Band In Flames (swedish death metel band) has a very nice gtr setup. Randall ISO boxes. 1 12" speaker and NO stage amps at all. Very nice for FOH. Bottem line is that there is no "THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE" rule for every type of player, and every band situation. IME If a player sucks, for some reason they tend to want to play louder, and share the suck-i-ness with others LMAO. Some people just should never leave the garage. Seriously.
Jeez ... that turned into ONE long post LOL. Sorry.