Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

They also have it in a 12 string version.
http://www.feedback.nl/?id=55&b=19223
This store is the biggest instruments store in the Netherlands, but not the best, because they don't sell real Rickenbackers!
Just to let you know..

deal, or no deal...

OK-
So I'm a bit lost-
If one of us makes a copy for our own use; not to sell, but to keep our little paws busy, then Rick has the legal right to put a stop to that?
I understand about making them for profit; there's a definite crossing the line there.
So where am I lost...?

You know, this issue comes up so often, John Hall should write a definitive blurb regarding RIC's trademarks (and how they relate to copies) that could be posted somewhere on this site (with Peter's permission of course).

Would the issue be simpler if it involved pirated software rather than pirated guitar designs?
A perpetrator might claim they were only using it for their own purposes, there was no profit involved, they paid the price of the blank CD-R, and therefore weren't hurting anyone...

Would anyone on the forum publicly stand behind that kind of behaviour, and say it's okay?

Other guitar manufacturers have a different policy and they still manage to make a profit. I'm not saying what is right or wrong and I'm not telling anyone how to protect their property or run their business. All I'm saying is, I'll leave the legal part to RIC legal dept., I get the impression they are doing a good job. Still, the Laguna-esque walnut 4005 is a nice design idea IMHO.

I seem to recall JH saying once that his legal department was his most profitable division. I could be wrong. Either way I wouldn’t mess with them

And, BTW, it’s great to see you back here John!

Cheers!

"If one of us makes a copy for our own use; not to sell, but to keep our little paws busy, then Rick has the legal right to put a stop to that?
"

I'm no lawyer, but my gut answer is CORRECT, RIC does have that right.

Ask yourself, if you go thru *all* the effort to make a replica of one of Rickenbacker's instruments, would you not want to show off the fruits of your labors? By doing that (either at a gig, or on a posting forum) you have put out, in the open, a copy, which in the eyes of others might set a perceived precedent wherein it is ok to continue to copy these instruments. The alternative, from my point of view, would be for a copied instrument to never leave the building of origin and when the builder is finished with it, he/she would have to destroy it.

I understand that might sound too critical, but RIC has to take action to protect their trademarks as John said.

Why are we all here, and are fans of Rickenbacker instruments? Because they are unique, function extremely well, and are very high quality and IMO the best dollar value you can purchase in an instrument. Let's face it- there's also an elitist feeling of owning a Rickenbacker, no? Whenever I bring my 75 4001 to ANY music shop to try amps, pedals ETC ETC when it comes out of the case everyone around is drawn to it like a bug light in the middle of summer. By having copies out on the market or anywhere for that matter, it diminishes the uniqueness of Rickenbackers, and ultimately RIC's profitability.

Well then along those lines-
If a band plays a cover in a venue, and if the author of that tune is in the club, said author can pull the plug.
Hmmm...

Exactly right Dave.

Thing about trademarks, you use it or you lose it. That is crucial to understand because if you don't actively enforce it, forget about it, no need to mention other guitar manufacturers here. If everyone and their brother are making 4005/380 rips in their garages and those go out into the public the trademark gets diluted and then NOBODY CAN BE STOPPED FROM MAKING COPIES. What follows? Perhaps, some shady guitar companies flying budget Rickenbacker look-alikes out of Korea every day.

I don't think anyone wants that and I don't think people that make their own Rickenbacker specials understand that.

Furthermore, a trademark is not the same as a copyright!

Well then along those lines-
If a band plays a cover in a venue, and if the author of that tune is in the club, said author can pull the plug.
Hmmm…

I don’t think that is the case John, but I do know that we regularly pay 3% of our door takings to the Performing Rights Society. Quite how the money is shared out I can never work out. I also understand that if we were a classical music ensemble then 4% should be paid to the PRS.

This has always bewildered and amused me as most classical authors are dead!

since the majority of us forum'er are not trademark lawyers, I'll go with RIC.

just to keep my babies safe!

"Well then along those lines-
If a band plays a cover in a venue, and if the author of that tune is in the club, said author can pull the plug.
Hmmm..."

The venue is supposed to pay BMI, ASCAP etc. a yearly fee to cover the songs played. I really wonder how many bars really pay it? I see BMI?ASCAP stickers on the doors of some venues, but even they could be old.


....totally of topic... I just got the new Chili Peppers CD....nice.

You know, there are few things more pleasurable than a great Rickenbacker; a "Store Bought Factory" Rickenbacker.
I have several on order as I write this....
The only reason I made mine is that Rickenbacker doesn't make those anymore and I don't wish to spend $15K +++
for one of the less than 75 ever made. In fact, I have better things to do with my time than building these things at all.
At my rate of $100/hr, there's just nothing in it but an insane desire for a slab 4000....
In fact I would buy one in a heartbeat if Rick ever re-issued
them. I think many others here would do likewise.
So-
John, Ben, Horseradish Tree, please make a 4000v59 FG, MG and AutumnGlo ...
And a 4005v65, a 4001v65, a 365v58....
Pretty please

Is Horseradish Tree back in the news, then?
Only in Asia I suspect.