Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Here's an intersting quote from Carr on how American Music Union stifled appearances by British Bands or so he implies.

"British Invasion bands of the early Sixties sometimes found their tours stymied by union regulations that were designed around the turn of the century to prevent European orchestras from coming to the New World and stealing work from American groups. David Carr, a keyboardist and arranger who once played in the English band the Fortunes, remembers that the group lost its chance to play on The Ed Sullivan Show in 1965 just as its first hit, "You've Got Your Troubles, I've Got Mine," was riding high on the charts. "They hung us up because they had to swap us for the Sir Douglas Quintet and another group-they always wanted two groups in England for every one that played here-and while they were dickering, the Sullivan gig came and went. Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference in our career," Carr shrugs, "but you always wonder. It certainly didn't do the Beatles any harm."

A bit of a window into the obstacles faced by the British groups, Roy. Thanks for passing this along. The fortunes of his group may have been even better had they perfomed on Ed Sullivan.

It seems to me that the Beatles eclipsed this union regulation when the promoters and record companies did the math!

It would be great to get an interview with David Carr. My take on The Fortunes fall from the charts is, as so many others found out, psychedelia was not every groups' forte. The Beatles continued to adapt and change which is one of the reasons for their great success. The Fortunes were a bit of a one-trick pony.

Slightly harsh that last comment, many groups including The Searchers fell into that trap Peter, the Fortunes of today only contain one original member but as he was the lead vocalist you could say the sound is still there.

Quite recently within last 2/3 years The Fortunes made 2 modern albums, which they possibly financed themselves, not the usual stuff of all the old hits rerecorded but new songs. Albums were only sold at gigs, at least first was , second was available in Europe but only on one website.

I have that first album and will get round to posting a couple of tracks, if there is any interest.

I would love to hear a track or two Roy.

By one-trick pony, I did not mean to take away from their talent or sound. What they did they did exceedingly well as their hits would indicate.

Perhaps a slightly better equestrian analogy would be that they were riding English at a time when riding Western was more adaptive. They no longer had free-rein to roam as they wanted but needed to switch to another style for which they were not well equipped.

Thanks Roy...I was about to throw in the towel on that one! Interesting thoughts Peter re: the need to adapt to musical changes if one wants to stay popular. The first wave of surf music fell as a result of The Beatles and the British Invasion movement (interesting some surf songs of the 60's were covers of popular UK artists)..Elvis felt the heat of that movement as well..in comes Psych..and the next change was underway....all comes back around though..lucky for us!

"That Union man's got such a hold over me..." sang Ray Davies about the very union problems Roy mentions. -from The Kinks, Lola vs. Powerman & the Money-go-round, "Get Back In The Line"

Mark: QED

If you all don't mind, what exactly was the problem with the Kinks and their problems getting into the US for touring?

Three tracks from Fortunes 1999 album link

The Kinks were actually banned from playing the US for quite awhile, and the exact reason has always been murky, although it was indeed another union issue. Here is one version from Wikipedia:

"At the conclusion of their summer 1965 American tour the American Federation of Musicians union had The Kinks banned from re-entering the United States by United States Government for unspecified reasons. It has been suggested the AFM feared that British bands were gaining too much share of the music market and arbitrarily targeted The Kinks, or that a fight with a union member while recording Dick Clark's television show may have been the cause. Whatever the reason the band were prohibited from returning to the US for four years."

And as we contemplate the Kinks, I think they qualify as an act that should have been more successful, although history has indeed borne out their status as Greats. But the US touring ban nearly brought them down entirely...their popularity waned somewhat, they were not perceived as being part of the late-60's "movement", and the issue cause Davies to write differently and to embrace a strong sense of nationalism in his songs. I would argue that they would have become bigger in the US had it not been for the ban.

Here is Ray's take on the matter:

Why were you banned from the USA for almost five years in the '60s?

Mick Avory, our then-drummer, summed it up eloquently. He said a combination of bad management, bad luck and bad behaviour. They just didn't understand our North London sense of humour. It was like sending ['30s cheeky chappy British comedian] Max Miller to entertain the American troups in Guam. I think the Americans were actually frightened of us. We thought we were just acting normally. There was something in the air that a British band was going to be banned, and with the way we looked and sounded, we were the ones.

Roy: Thanks for the fortunes' tracks. "Some Bridges" is my favourite of the three. A contemporary Fortunes to say the least with the same great vocals. It has a Eagles' vibe complete with slide guitar. It also sounds a tad like Grundig to me. I mean these comparisons to be complimentary.

Mark: It is interesting to see Ray's comments. From a listener's point of view, the Kinks were somewhat controversial even in the UK. It is their different sound and lyrics that captured my interest, a good example of which was The "Village Green Preservation Society" album.

Judging from today's events, they are STILL controversial! Anyroad...

Okay Mr. Clough, this band is one of my all-time favorites. Would you happen to have any rarities for us?

The Kinks I have to say Mark were not one of my all time favourites, so I probably haven't. I do have the first two singles prior to You Really Got Me but you probably have these.

I think the comments credited to Ray Davis as to why they were not popular in US are in my view not credible, you guys and gals took to scouse humour no problem.

Peter

Of the tree Fortunes tracks I posted that would be my number three, that's what makes discussion eh!

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

All of us are right...and all the rest of us are wrong.