Lennon on the Stones

vito · Post by **vito** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:29 am

"But... He came up with the whole thing"

I would have to respectfully disagree there, Bob. T-Bone Walker was Chuck Berry before there was Chuck Berry. But I will say that the real Chuck told one helluva story and deserves a lot of credit. It has always seemed to me that T-Bone gets the short end of the stick when talking about innovators and influences.

wolfgang · Post by **wolfgang** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:10 am

no one plays Too much monkey busines and Havana Moon like Berry.
And as Chuck Berry said: T-Bone Walker, Muddy Waters and a bit of Charly Christian. Nothing new.

YES, there is the old question again: who invented music?
At least WE know who invented the electric guitar.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:14 am

>>He's a direct descendant of Chuck Berry<<

I was watching that horrible Superbowl halftime show, listening to Keith's riffing and thinking "I hope Chuck is making some money off of this." Of course he probably didn't, which goes a long way in explaining Chuck's cynicism towards the business, which led to him turning in all those lame shows with pickup bands. Unfortunately people continued to pay to see Chuck rather than hear him.

Otherwise, I agree with some of the earlier posts about post- Taylor era Stones output. If the US radio hadn't gotten so putrid by the late 70s, awful Stones singles like "She Was Hot," and "I'm So Hot For Her" woudn't ever have seen airplay.

It's pathetic that they did. I can see middle-aged Keith and Mick sitting around, after a night of Mick at Studio 54, telling each other to put "hot" in the lyrics. It was about as cool and inspired then as it is when Paris Hilton says it now.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun May 20, 2007 1:29 pm

T Bone Walker was not rock n roll at all, neither was Muddy Waters and certainly not Charley Christian. I am sure he got licks from them and chords etc, but as far as his style, no one ever played like him before. I believe a big part of why he doesn't play all that well most of the time is that he does not change and has a huge ego and really doesn't care: There is a scene in Hail Hail where he insists on using his Fender amps with his new ES-335 which obviously didn't sound good to anyone but him, they put a mic in front of the amp, drilled a hole in the floor and ran it down to a Mesa Boogie which was EQ'ed differently and that was the amp which was recorded. He had no impetus to improve in his mind, he had invented the stuff and no one was better. He always played with pickup bands because he had such a huge ego that he thought no one cared about anyone else in the band except for him, which was maybe true about the majority of his audience. A friend of mine's band backed him in the 70's. He arrived about 5 minutes before they were to go on, the bass player asked him what they were going to play, Chuck looked through him to his manager and said sarcastically "You mean to tell me you hired a band who doesn't know my stuff?" they got onstage and he just started songs without telling anyone the keys which were all flats, horn keys, all sorts of things like that. His shows were always lame, friends have seen him so high he could hardly stay awake from his nod years ago. Hail Hail had a new 20 Ann. release last year with an extra DVD in which all involved were interviewed along with a lot of great rehearsal tracks, he is quite a character, trusts no one. Every day at the time shooting was supposed to start they would wait for maybe two hours and then they would get a call to meet him at a certain place with a bag full of cash which I think was $10,000, this happened every day.
And to answer Mark, I know guitar players also who can play rings around him but again, they are building upon what he Chuck Berry synthesized which is maybe a better word than invented rock n roll. Quote (maybe paraphrase) from John Lennon: "If you were going to give rock n roll another name, it would be Chuck Berry". Chuck started it all, doesn't matter how technically proficient he was, rock n roll is not about proficiency, it's a feeling.
Didn't mean to hijack this thread, carry on boys: resume trashing the Stones.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sun May 20, 2007 4:08 pm

I like Chuck, save his decades spent putting video equipment in women's ladies and peeing on ceratin females, literally (he needed some of the cash to settle the suits from that.)

Even by rock standards it would be harder to find a bigger S.O.B. (only the good die young.) It's funny how the documentaries talk about him violating the Mann Act, "taking a minor across state lines..." but of course they never quote the part for "illicit purposes." Plus he's done time for tax evasion (the bags of cash prove he should probably return to prison for the same charge.)

I don't agree he started it all. Little Richard, Bo DIddley, Elvis, Buddy, Eddie C., the Everlys, Roy O....rock has a long, distinguished list of Founding Fathers.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Mon May 21, 2007 8:51 am

You go, Bob! I have to agree with you. Chuck Berry will be remembered for Chuck Berry music and style, right down to the duck walk...whereas some excellent musicians who can play rings around him...let's see, I dunno, someone like Steve Vai, or Jimmie Vaughn...will probably fade from memory as time goes by. We remember those who carry the baton across the finish line.

It's a reach for me to minimize the contributions of the man who brought us "Johnny B. Goode" as we know it.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:06 am

Sorry for the incoherent post on Chuck. What I meant to say is, he was of course sued for installing video equipment in the ladies bathroom of the club he was running.

Musically, he main strength was songwriting, though his showmanship was outstanding.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:23 pm

He really was (is) a great lyricist.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:49 pm

Someone called him the "Shakespeare of Rock 'n Roll."

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:39 am

The Stones never bested 12 x 5.