Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

winston wrote: Assuming that there is an element of truth to the stories, why has she had not been drummed out of the music business like Milli Vanilli were?

An element of truth? You have her colleague admitting it, right there. If she's dancing, then she's faking. And she was always dancing. Thus she was always faking. I wish I had the SNL example. It proves she couldn't even sing live when NOT dancing. There was a great quote in People Magazine from one of the guys in Pink Floyd about her, in the early 90s, something like "she's the worst, a horror. The only talents she actually has are she's absolutely fearless and couldn't be more ambitious."

Milli Vanilli? Consider the fact that there's been a massive shift in what's not only allowed but praised in show biz here in the states since they were around, and gangsta came on the scene. Pre-gangsta, MC Hammer saw his career implode because he did a Doritos commercial. Post gansta you see P Diddy praised for whoring in every way conceivable way, putting his name on anything. This after having a "career" where he did nothing but release old Police songs with awful vocal tracks and talking over them.

Also, the last 6 years or so, you have the biggest thing in the music business here being a glorified amateur show. American Idol would be no more successful than Star Search if the labels and radio had been doing their jobs the past quarter century. Chris Rock already pointed out the absurdity of having Paula Abdul "judge a singing contest." If you remember, she saw her career vanish after it was revealed she was no different than M.V. They tried to dispute it by having her sing and she was atrocious. Bam, game over.

These are the reasons big labels are seeing double digit drops in sales. They haven't built catalogs. They've just cross marketed as much **** as they can as many ways as they could to the clueless. Thus, it was a lot more than Napster.

I don't doubt for a second that there is an element of truth in these reports. However, people have been known to clolor their world according to how they are being treated on any given day. Since I have no direct knowledge of these events, it is hard for me to subscribe to them just based on hearsay evidence.

What this discussion has done though that is of value, is that we are navigating this thread towards a very important aspect of the emerging business of music. Simply put: How it used to be managed and controlled and how it is now becoming a whole different business model.

winston wrote:How it used to be managed and controlled and how it is now becoming a whole different business model.

Or, how it used to be managed and controlled, then became totally mismanaged, then was out of control, and now is becoming a whole different animal.

One thing's for sure, with the Internet breaking up the old boy's network, commercial radio is completely irrelevant, as are big labels, and worthless rags like Rolling Stone, which kowtowed to the status quo. There's little or no emphasis on videos anymore. It's back to music, finally.

In defense of Britney; the only reason why it was okay for her to lip synch through her shows was Madonna doing it a dozen years earlier.

winston wrote:Interesting information there guys. It begs the question though: Assuming that there is an element of truth to the stories, why has she had not been drummed out of the music business like Milli Vanilli were?
Your thoughts?

From what i've heard, Milli Vanilli didn't even sing on their studio records, what people heard wasn't their own voices. Madonna did sing at least in studio, so that's a different story.
(yeah, yeah, i know, i shouldn't know about that... but pop talk is contagious, you know )

I think it's fine if you don't sing on your records if it's fine if you don't sing in concert. I just wish Madonna never sang.

studiotwosession wrote:I just wish Madonna never sang.

I second that emotion. Someone must like her though, she has sold a ton of CD's.

The reason Madonna sold a ton of CDs is because when video hit, labels and radio were scared instead of being logical. They gave the music buying public no better alternative. Instead of saying "well, videos can be fun but we're in the audio business. We need to continue to sign and promote talent based on the quality of their songs and performances, not how they look or by them jumping on and ripping off a different fashion every six months (Madonna.) Videos are totally superficial without talent behind them. And even the biggest video stars aren't going to build catalogs that will continue to sell over time, and that is our job." But the other problem was Universal buying up labels, and having ulterior motives other than music, a couple of companies buying up most radio stations and making them even worse than they already were, which some would have thought was impossible. By the way, George Michael may have been the worst of them all. His "music" sounds like advertising ripoff tracks made for commercials. Pseudo soul and whatever else he did, just terrible. The great thing is, he has no career now, and now people who really like music can go places like the RRF, and thousands of others, to find out what's good, and can get it while completely bypassing the guilty of all of the above.

Some try to give "the system" the finger and some integrity I guess, but they have some influence ... but then, their efforts are given a back seat as compared to other acquiescent "artists" that will play ball:

Thanks for the youtube link Manuel.

That is a great example of pressure from a couple of snotty nosed A&R guys who tried desperately to cheapen the body of work of a skilled veteran to further some unknown goal in their own meaningless existence. Perhaps they did have a personal stake in the song being rammed down Rogers throat. Who knows and who cares, I am very glad Tom was there and that he chose to fight for Roger.

Unfortunately that is a fairly recent example and it demonstrates that corruption and coercion still exists. I hope all those who visit here watch this shameful process unfold before their eyes.

What a powerful example of what must be one of the greatest pressures on an artist - having one's integrity compromised because a company executive has a vested interest. I would love to know the whole story.

While I have not heard everything that Tom Petty has recorded, I have always wondered why I have enjoyed every song that I have heard by him to date. I now have my answer - Integrity. Time to pickup some more Tom Petty material.

A great find Manuel. A great topic, Brian. Thank you.

I'm a big fan of TP's. I think he's never topped his first three albums. But even they have some rubbish on them (Baby's a Rock 'n Roller, for one, I bet he regrets.) As for Roger, if he didn't want to record some trash handed to him by the man, maybe he should have done what the others in the same situation have done; sit down and work until they came up with something better.