Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Joey - were you two isolated or jamin?

dcr wrote: And don't get me started about NAMM, anyway...the NAMM thing said to me that the company can interrupt production to produce the 4004 when it suits them, even if they can't be bothered merely because some customer is waiting on an ordered item. It might be worth it if the display were done in a way that might generate more interest, and not just a whole "under glass" affair. But as it is, it's kind of insulting, really.

I wrote something similar on this forum late last year, at least to the point of saying the only consistent 4004 production for the last three years has been three or four basses made for NAMM, and got a personal nasty gram (somewhat insulting, too) from John Hall. (3 years was a slight exaggeration. The MBs were finished in 2006) I intended to actually defend the decision of the company to cancel models based on low demand, but I guess it didn't come out that way. The only thing I can say with certainty that the three year wait has taught me is that I won't do it again. 4003s, 330s and 360s are made frequently enough that one will usually be in stock somewhere, but the less popular models will be in-stock purchases only. Not that I'm planning on buying anything within the next few years, but I don't want to go through another 3 year wait while reading about backlogs and seeing special editions and later orders processed (such as AFG...) before mine. I know things come in an order and producing things in quantities make sense and all that stuff, but, the "backlog" argument only goes to a point. One of the 4004 FGs shipped was on order for four years (at least that's what I read on another post, I think at the Rickenbacker site). I think that's quite a bit excessive for a standard color production model bass.

I love my Rick instruments and they play well, but there are plenty of options on the market that, especially with the recent price increases, are equal in value. Had I known mine would have taken 3+ years to be delivered, I probably wouldn't have bought it. By the time you're into the long wait, you might as well finish it because it can't be that much longer, right? Then again, this may be the dark before the dawn and the 4004s may start having more runs due to production increases.

I'm just saying dcr has a valid point from a consumer standpoint about these basses and, even though steps are being made to reduce backlog, some of us haven't seen the actual impacts of production increases yet.

Tom, Paul and I were playing through individual amps, so we couldn't hear each other. But Paul and I did get to jam together at last year's SoCal confluence.

Ryan and Dan, you guys are expecting RIC, a small family run company, to run and produce the same amount of instruments as companies with large facilities such as Fender, Gibson and Ibanez, It's just not possible.

Dan, it doesn't seem to me that people haven't been ordering a 4004 because they think it will take too long to be produced. To me, it just seems like most people want all the vintage features and appointments and none of their favorite bassists use a 4004. Many look for RIC to come out with a new product, then when they do, they think it looks nice, but they'll stick with what they are used to seeing and playing.
The more RIC makes a 4003 look like a vintage 4001, the more most people are happy.

Let there be an influential bassist or two in a very popular band start regularly using a 4004 and then that would be a game changer. I'm not counting the 4004LK for the reasons I've stated in a previous post.

No famous artist nor anyone else had to convince me that the 4004 basses are the best kept secret in the world of bass guitars. I've found that out myself.

rickenbrother wrote:Ryan and Dan, you guys are expecting RIC, a small family run company, to run and produce the same amount of instruments as companies with large facilities such as Fender, Gibson and Ibanez, It's just not possible.

I think you might be missing some of the point. It isn't that they aren't producing instruments, it's what they choose to produce. Their demand may be disproportional to their size, in comparison to Fender or Gibson, but waiting three years to produce an instrument offered by them is a little excessive. I'm not expecting a batch to be made every six months or anything, but every couple of years to knock down the previous backlog would be nice. Throw out the argument about blueburst being a COY because, as stated above, the FGs take just as long to produce. If I had wanted a BBR 4003, I would have had one over a year ago.

I am whining, and I admit it, but if the demand is truly this low that they don't have a business need to schedule production time for the instrument but once every two and a half to three years, is it economical to even offer it? I wonder how many other instruments are in a similar situation. I've only kept track of 4004s and haven't paid any attention to the times on others.

I'M missing a point?!?

I'm not going to bother arguing this anymore.

Where were we when this thread started?...on yeah, hey Ange, congrats on the Cii, it's beautiful, enjoy it. Make great music with it. Play it loud enough so that we ALL can hear and feel it!!

aceonbass wrote:There are two kinds of RIC owners..people who got one because their hero played one and then realized it didn't make them play any better...and people who have five or ten and know it's worth the wait.

FWIW my Ric basses have made me a better player... I'm serious. And IMHO the wait isn't some kind of a tolerance test to see if you're Ric-worthy. I just buy mine off eBay and craigslist...

This thread has got me thinking, maybe I should make the effort to get the next Cii to hit eBay, these things are tomorrow's collectible basses.

rickenbrother wrote:I'M missing a point?!?

I'm not going to bother arguing this anymore.

Fully behind you, Joey!

Cheers

As for the 4004s - I just wonder how may Ric players who don't have one have actually tried one out? I'm old enough to kinda know what I like. Not because someone famous plays the instrument. That may have gotten my attention - the sound and all - but it would not be the reason I purchased a 4001 in '74 and still have/use it. Like the Fender Jazz - love the sound but just don't like the taper at the nut end of the neck.... All I can say about the 4004's (from my expierience) is, from thin to fat sound, they are like thunder under the fingers!

But a question (Dane maybe??) what is the difference between the 4004L and 4004Cii. I have never played a Cii before only the L's... just interested.

Tom, if both basses were plugged into an amp with a flat eq, the Laredo with an all maple body will produce a brighter tone than the Cii Cheyenne with the maple/walnut/maple body which tends to have a warmer tone.
The Laredo has the CV finish on the fingerboard which also lends to a brighter tone. Most of the Cheyennes do not have the CV finish on the fingerboard.

Thanks Andy, we must be "missing" the same point!

I have had a 2006 as new, 4004 Cii up for sale on Ebay on and off for 5 months and had little interest shown in it. Suprises me when people say they can't get hold of one. I have bought 2 Laredos and 2 cheyennes on Ebay and through forum members without any hassles with supply. I also have the added limitation of living in Oz which makes obtaining Rics so much more difficult than for people within the USA. I think sometimes there is too much "status" put into buying Rics new. We all know there are delays and backlogs with Rics so be proactive and source them elsewhere. That's just the way it is. I personally cant understand why anyone who seriously wants to enjoy the experience of owning a Ric would wait indefinately when it is so easy to source perfectly good basses now. I'm sure there are many satisfied forum members who have done as I have. My passion was to own Ric basses and I have made it so! I hope this inspires others to get out there and achieve their dreams.

Brett, IIRC, that's the the trans green one, which is a real beauty.
I think you set a decent price for a hard to find instrument in Australia. However for someone like me to buy it at that price, then add the shipping costs, it would be better to wait for one for sale in the USA or just order a new one.

Hi Joey, Yes it was a fairly high price but in fact I wasnt making anything out of it, just covering costs. As you say freight and taxes do add to the price but that's what the tyranny of distance brings. I was just using the example that I wanted to satisfy my passion to own Rics and found a way to do it. As with most things in life it comes down to how much people really want something. In sales its about 'needs' and 'wants' and I would wager that most of us would pay much more for the latter! Life's too short to sit there wondering what might have been.

By the way, the TG is still available if anyone wants to PM me and negotiate a deal.

Here's my take on 4004cii production. Its all about economies of scale - in other words, if you produce an item at greater quantities, you can produce it faster and cheaper. So if RIC is producing hundreds of 4003's, its ultimately more profitable for the company, which may lead to keeping the "bread and butter" models in high production. There also probably needs to be a minimum quantity on order to justify a production run, as I'm sure there is lost time during the manufacturing crossover from one model to another. For instance when was the last time we saw a run of mandolins? No its not a great situation waiting three years plus for a 4004cii, but it does appear that RIC is sincere about addressing the issue as they go forward.