MJ

[whojamfan]

I spent an hour editing this post, trying not to violate forum rules, trying not to offend anyone, or trying not to come across as an uncaring, unsympathetic human being. What can I say, I gave it a shot, and feel the need to say this in response to what I'm hearing and seeing everywhere I turn.

I find it hard to accept that persons can do harmful things to children and many people can look the other way because of celebrity status. How many among us would allow our young son to spend the weekend with MJ at his neverland compound?

II've seen too much of the lifelong damage that people like MJ inflict on others and as a result my tears and sympathies are with the victims. There are many other talented folks who can make great music without all of this depraved drama.

It is hard to know how long the media circus will last proclaiming what a misunderstood person this guy was all the while marketing scams make the quick buck.

King of Pop? Not in my book.

[collin]

do a search on ebay for Michael Jackson vinyl

Wow, no kidding!

$1225 right now for an unopened Thriller LP :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jackson-Thr ... tsupported

This is what they were selling for about 36 hours ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jackson-Thr ... tsupported

and opened LP's :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jackson-Thr ... tsupported


Not to mention there are about 12 pages of sold Thriller albums in the past 24 hours. Gotta love it, so funny.

[admin]

Mike: This situation is an emotionally charged one. You will notice numerous edits but I have tried to maintain the gist of your original comments.

[gregga41]

$1225 right now for an unopened Thriller LP :

Must be one of the several hundred thousand sent back to the distributors after not selling, but still being claimed amongst the final sales figures! One of the biggest chart scams of all time.
You are spot-on Mike!!

[winston]

Further to Peter's comments let me add that the topic of Michael Jackson will stir emotions of all sorts whether you are in his camp as a fan or in the other camp that is convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that he had relationships with children that were not acceptable and nothing about his life was worth celebrating. As you can see these are two polar opposites. We have edited a number of posts in this thread and I now find it necessary to post this comment in order to avoid this thread getting even more out of hand.

I am not going to be looking over your shoulder to tell you what you can or what you cannot post, but please remember that any posts that are deemed inflammatory or unacceptable to post on this forum or that break our rules in some manner will at minimum be edited and if you choose to continue to post messages that are in poor taste or break the rules then there will be other consequences for your actions.

There are many message boards available to you to post your feelings on this subject that do not have to be concerned with liability and other legal issues as we do.

[shamustwin]

In no way was my intention to gloss over the seriousness of child abuse with my choice of the word scandal. That was simply shorthand, I tend to try to post quickly at work. Sincere apologies for any misunderstanding.

[winston]

Thanks Jerry. I am sure many of us have made the occasional post or have made comments in haste because of our commitments or pressures. Such is life.

[whojamfan]

I absolutely did not direct my post at anyone here, and my sincerest apologies to anyone who may have felt that way. Like I stated, I sat there for an hour trying to word it to where people wouldn't feel it was aimed at them, or to use terminology that is generally "faith" based or had a political agenda. I simply wanted to convey how consistantly dissappointed I am at the way the media spins facts for ratings, and how the public begs for seconds.

There is no disputing the incredible musical talent of the Jackson family, especially Michael and Janet. Both have proven over the years that they can crank out the hits, be trend setters, and help to break down the barriers of race and gender. The other members of the family have had their share of problems, but every reunion show has been a sold out affair wherever they have played. So yes, I fully acknowledge the contributions that the Jacksons, mainly Michael, have given to the world of popular music.

Magic palaces with zoos and all that are not much different than any other eccentric rock stars diggs. All of that money, and a different way of looking at things, will yeild strange and exciting(or completely laughable)results.Looking at the very same artists we discuss here all of the time, there are many stories of eccentric excess that are both amusing and confusing. But hey, what would you do after you bought everything you ever wanted for you and your family, and still had enough to buy an island?

Everytime since the 90s(it seems)the only time MJ has made the news is when he's done something bizzare, or been on trial. His musical releases have been barely noted in comparison to any of the things that do make the news. Everything from the massive medical procedures to Bubbles the chimp have far overshadowed any musical contributions he has made. This is what I find so alarming in the media, that everything but his music has been exploited for ratings, and now that he is dead, they're gonna run with that for all it's worth.

Celebrities always seem to get a free, or darn near, walk on the crimes they committ. These people repeatedly conduct themselves in any manner they please,without any thought or care to how the very fans that made them interpret their actions. So many of these dimwit star rich girls in and out of rehab have hordes of young girls who look up to them, and send the worst kinds of messages to minds that are already bogged down with severe insecurities. The media reinforces this mindset, showing that you have to be some anorexic, physically augmented, morally bankrupt bimbo to have value and be newsworthy.

The last thing I want to do here is spread ill will, in the odd chance I have an issue with something someone has said, I would PM this person to see if I was being overly paranoid(which is always a distinct possisibility) or for clarification. I'm not looking to make anyone feel bad, there is enough of that in this world, and I really try to be conscience of that when I'm posting. It doesn't always work, but understand it is foremost in my mind, and that I sometimes have a warped sense of humour.

[Bighouse]

I find it hard to accept that persons can do harmful things to children and many people can look the other way because of celebrity status. How many among us would allow our young son to spend the weekend with MJ at his neverland compound? ...King of Pop? Not in my book.

I hear you and understand how you can feel that way. I think, though, that the depravity goes MUCH deeper than just what MJ may have done with those kids. Sadly I think his entire life was spent in some kind of condition of abuse- from his father at an early age, from his agents, from his fans, from his doctors, from his handlers, from his family...probably anyone who came in contact with him. Fame and the adoration that seems to come with it weild a tremendous amount of weird power that individuals can then warp on those around them...and those around them are guilty, I think, of sometimes weilding that weird power, twisted to their own advantage when they can do so. Did any salesman in a store ever say to him "NO, do NOT splend $12,000,000 on junk you don't need!". Did any creditor simply say "NO, you can't afford that"...did any hired doctor say "NO, you cannot do Demerol- it's killing you!"...did any family or friend take him away from the insanity that was his life and try to really help him? Did the mothers or fathers of those sleep-over kids say "NO, you cannot have my child spend the night at your house!"...seems there was PLENTY of expoitation going on his entire life and by him and by others as well all for their own, I suspect, selfish gains. Enablers aplenty helped him satisfy his depraved needs...even to the point, perhaps, of sacraficing their children to him.

Now, people who are capable of horrendous deeds (or what some may see as depravity) are also people who can do wonderful kind things for others as well. As much as I didn't like the song "We Are The World" it really did help many in the world and it launched an industry of the Rock world banding together to help other causes. And I know his has a much longer list of humanitarian causes that benefited from his generosity and philanthropism. Does doing good justify doing bad? Not in my book...but I just wanted to make the point that it's not so clear to me if he was a devil or a saint. We're all capable of being both.

[whojamfan]

I'm sure Jacko had his share of hard knocks, bad times, and poor advice. Apparantly, from what I've read, what he was "accused" of doing wasn't something that was formed through the abuses he suffered, but rather from feelings he was born with. I'm sure I'll get nuked here if I go one step further down that road, so I will just end it like this-regardless of background, circumstance, income level, whatever, adults are responsible for their own actions. There are many other people who had it much worse who never did things like this. It's all about making choices, unless for some supernatural reason, you are unable to. The decision to be a devil or a saint is yours to make, regardless of your spiritual(or lack of)beliefs.

And yes, the charitable contributions he made were a wonderfull thing. I'm sure many have benefitted from his work in those areas, and in no way do I wish to downplay those actions. May his children grow up to happy, healthy people who can enjoy lives full of love and prosperity.

[egosheep]

I am very sad. Michael will always have a place in my heart.

As far as the allegations go, it's infuriating. Having a large amusement park/zoo in your home is not the hallmark of a serial child molester. Michael always loved children and made no secret of the fact. He was a child at heart, and a multimillionaire, and did not have to grow up or face reality like most of us have to do. He lived his dreams to a fault perhaps, and made a target out of himself.

I wonder if when Pete Townsend passes away, people will be remember him as a tireless crusader, collecting evidence of child pornography for the authorities on his own dime...

[gregga41]

Not going to touch that one!
What's Pete Townshend got to do with it??

[godber]

I am very sad. Michael will always have a place in my heart.

As far as the allegations go, it's infuriating. Having a large amusement park/zoo in your home is not the hallmark of a serial child molester. Michael always loved children and made no secret of the fact. He was a child at heart, and a multimillionaire, and did not have to grow up or face reality like most of us have to do. He lived his dreams to a fault perhaps, and made a target out of himself.

I wonder if when Pete Townsend passes away, people will be remember him as a tireless crusader, collecting evidence of child pornography for the authorities on his own dime...

Surely reality is a face you have to look at regardless of how much money you have; there is no denying the physical consequences (if not the legal ones - if you can afford it) right? The amusment park is not an isolated question, it's a forty something man sleeping in a bed with other peoples children which might give a small clue as to the rationale?

Comparing PT in this situation...shame on you, that is not right.

I don't like this thread, it doesn't feel like the RRF.

[weemac]

For all the nutty (and quite horrible) things that MJ did, I'm sure that he truely belived that he never did any thing wrong.
I'm sure when he looked in the mirror he did not see the same person that we all saw..
He was never allowed to be a child and therefore never learned to be an adult...
I'm not defending his actions as they were not the actions of any sane person, but I'm sure from his point of view the world looked very different..

Theres not much more that can be said about it really....

Eden.

[egosheep]

I am very sad. Michael will always have a place in my heart.

As far as the allegations go, it's infuriating. Having a large amusement park/zoo in your home is not the hallmark of a serial child molester. Michael always loved children and made no secret of the fact. He was a child at heart, and a multimillionaire, and did not have to grow up or face reality like most of us have to do. He lived his dreams to a fault perhaps, and made a target out of himself.

I wonder if when Pete Townsend passes away, people will be remember him as a tireless crusader, collecting evidence of child pornography for the authorities on his own dime...

Surely reality is a face you have to look at regardless of how much money you have; there is no denying the physical consequences (if not the legal ones - if you can afford it) right? The amusment park is not an isolated question, it's a forty something man sleeping in a bed with other peoples children which might give a small clue as to the rationale?

Comparing PT in this situation...shame on you, that is not right.

I don't like this thread, it doesn't feel like the RRF.

What I'm talking about is the way some people seem to act as if MJ was a convicted sex offender, when he was not. Some comments have been pretty cold. I understand it's a heated issue, and many have strong opinions that what MJ did was wrong/illegal. They are entitled to their opinions, but I want to voice mine as well, and I feel just as strongly that he did nothing wrong whatsoever. If he was guilty, it would mean that people like Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, Lionel Ritchie etc all put their credibility on the line to stand up for a serial child molester(who had heavy contact with their own children in many cases). It would also mean that "victims" like Macaulay Culkin and Wade Robson are lying under oath about the abuse they suffered to protect their abuser. I just don't believe it happened. I don't think that a serial child molester would say on camera that he thought there was nothing wrong with sharing a bed with a child. I think that's the statement of an innocent man, misguided and/or misunderstood depending on your perspective.

The reason I mentioned PT is that he's regarded as a great artist, regardless of the fact that he committed a crime, admitted it, was warned for it and was placed on a sex offender registry for 5 years. The excuse of research and or helping the police is a really lame one, in my opinion... I've heard it more than once from the guys caught in the headlights on To Catch A Predator. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I do think its a double standard. It makes me angry. Why is it ok to talk about MJ but not Pete? Or Jimmy Page or Bill Wyman or R. Kelly? Sexual contact with minors in the flesh. But it's not the focus of conversation about them like it is with MJ.

That said, I agree with you that this is not why I come here to RRF. I'll miss Michael, I'll leave it at that.