The wood of john's first rickenbacker

[larrywassgren]

The only damage I remember hearing at this point was one of The Big Three was with John Lennon the day he bought it. He cranked on the Kauffman and broke it and Lennon was naturally irritated and had to wait a few days to pick the guitar up. Whether this actually happened or is fiction I don't know. There's a lot of story telling going on when you interview people about the early days. I mean, how can I remember what happened in November of 1960 or even on this day last year? That's why photos are so important. There's very few shots of the back of V81. The best I've seen is from a series of photos at the Star Club where The Beatles were playing with Roy Young on piano. This only shows part of the back though.

[karl_teten]

For the kind of damage spoken here V81 would have needed a re-finish as well. That would make it a new natural finish before the first black finish a couple of years later.

I don't see this kind of work being done with a guitar that wasn't even paid off yet.

The Beatles were living in a toilet during the time frame here and were broke.

[larrywassgren]

Karl, you are right on. They paid for the guitar on 'the knocker, down payment and the rest when they catch you' in the words of George Harrison. The guitar was/is well documented in photos by Astrid Kirchher, Jurgen Volmer, Gunter Zint, etc. during this period. There is no change in the finish or wood-grain when the guitar is natural. If it had been busted and that's the reason it was refinished black, why is the same wood-grain now showing and no signs of repair, wood filler......

[tonewerks]

cool

[johnhall]

Everyone, please take very careful note of this conversation and remember who said what. Like I said above, it all eventually comes out.

[larrywassgren]

I can't wait.

[atomic_punk]

Yeah, but who is going to break this one wide open?

[larrywassgren]

I think this is a big build-up for Nick Thiel's tabloid Beatles rag. Nick, you're alright but you have to realize there are no more mystery Beatle facts out there. Forty years after the fact you can't come up with unseen photos, unless they are doctored photos which is unfortunately easily done these days. Go back to the Astrid, Jurgen, Gunter..... photos as these are real and anything to surface this long after the fact is not.

[jingle_jangle]

Wow. A plot. I love intrigue.

Anything to surface this long after the fact is not real?

That's a tough statement to back up, and contradicts the personal experience of just about anyone who reads it.

[leftybass]

Larry, I would have thought that you would have more of an open mind about things like this. Just consider the possibility that maybe the back HAS been replaced....

Remember how long everyone thought the guitar was made out of maple?? There ya go.

At what point do you throw your arms up and say "..Well, there ain't nuthin' left to learn, it's all out??..." I would hope never.

[larrywassgren]

OK, I guess that is a little strong. But, like I've said before we're lucky to have as many photos of The Beatles as we do from the early days. Maybe Astrid and Jurgen saw something special in them and that's why they photographed them. We even have two photos by Geoff Rhind from July 6, 1957, the day John met Paul. Plus two songs recorded on a Grundig tape recorder from a kid in the audience that day. Then we've got Micael McCartney taking all these great shots. It's amazing when you think of it! I enjoy these photos as much as anybody and wish more rolls of undeveloped film would show up. If you've got a photo from 1960 showing V81 getting it's back/body replaced let's see it.

[johnhall]

This is precisely why I'm beginning to consider that my retirement might be better spent doing something else rather than write a book. Everyone already knows everything and the zealotry will continue to argue that black is white.

I may as well free up some space and start chucking old records now. I'd sure hate, for instance, to see all those early Fender and Rose Morris files be used to support some alternate reality.

[8mileshigh]

Retirement? Let's hear no more talk of that please.....

[admin]

Lefty wrote

"At what point do you throw your arms up and say '..Well, there ain't nuthin' left to learn, it's all out??...'

Good point John. With regard to trying to reconstruct the events of 45 years ago, there will always be additional new information that may trickle forth. Heck, they are still discovering old dinosaur bones after how long?

Wouldn't it be great to compare Lennon's first Rickenbacker and another made at the same time, side by side. This would allow for some interesting observations. While we are waiting for hard documentation, this sort of comparative analysis might shed light on this current discussion.

Much of our historical information is passed down by word of mouth and few folks are willing to take the time to document the details. I wonder how many details would come out of the woodwork if the Antiques Beatle Road Show hit the streets!

[leftybass]

Peter: I think the rule of thumb is that you never stop learning, unless you CHOOSE to stop learning.

The word of mouth accounts sometimes do more harm than good as we've all witnessed before...That's why I believe good research is a combination of 'word of mouth' and as much hard evidence as you can gather. The best of efforts sometimes have to 'read between the lines'....

The quest to know is most of the fun anyway. Once you know, it's all over with. Gotta move on...

John, y'know they just raised the retirement age for Guitar Corporation CEO's to 95, you gotta LONG way to go..