I don't need an enclosed cab for a fuller tone with my YCV40 when using a guitar. The amp falls on its face just below 80 Hz, so if you never try to play bass through it, you will do OK. If you play a detuned guitar, the open E string may sound a little weak.
People who wrote about the Traynor extension cabs on Harmony Central were not too impressed with them. I think that I would get a sturdy 4x10 cabinet and load if with Eminence B102 speakers and have a "do anything" cabinet for my Traynor to scream through. At least it would be good for bass guitar. Traynor needs to add a bass amp to their YCV series.
If you want something even cheaper than a Traynor, try stuffing an Eminence B102 in a used Marshall AVT20 and have yourself a "do anything" practice amp. I wrote a post on it, but it has gathered no attention since it's not a Vox or Fender or all-tube.
I need a new amp, reccomendations?
Moderator: jingle_jangle
If you want a deeper viewpoint into amps than you will get here in this discussion forum, then head over to:
http://www.tone-lizard.com/index.html
It's run by a Canadian, so he has a soft spot in his heart for Traynors as well, and he will also explode some myths about popular amps that are commonly held by guitarists.
http://www.tone-lizard.com/index.html
It's run by a Canadian, so he has a soft spot in his heart for Traynors as well, and he will also explode some myths about popular amps that are commonly held by guitarists.
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profjeff
Philip:
Very cool website you recommended. It affirmed some of my suspicions about tube amp myths. It also helped put me at ease about my occasional tendency to replace power amp tubes without biasing my amps--a practice that, so far, has not had any detrimental effects on my tone, at least as far as I can tell!
The discussion on speakers is particularly interesting. I have always questioned whether different materials used to make magnets (e.g., ALNICO vs. ceramic), in and of themselves, really have any inherent acoustic properties beyond the strength of the magnetic field that they emit.
I have always felt that the materials used to make the voice coils and the speaker cones is going contribute to the sound of an amp more than we think--moreso than the types of tubes that we select (like NOS vs. new tubes, etc.).
Very cool website you recommended. It affirmed some of my suspicions about tube amp myths. It also helped put me at ease about my occasional tendency to replace power amp tubes without biasing my amps--a practice that, so far, has not had any detrimental effects on my tone, at least as far as I can tell!
The discussion on speakers is particularly interesting. I have always questioned whether different materials used to make magnets (e.g., ALNICO vs. ceramic), in and of themselves, really have any inherent acoustic properties beyond the strength of the magnetic field that they emit.
I have always felt that the materials used to make the voice coils and the speaker cones is going contribute to the sound of an amp more than we think--moreso than the types of tubes that we select (like NOS vs. new tubes, etc.).
It depends on the speakers and the tubes you are comparing.
The Chinese 12AX7 sounds like another world compared to the 12AY7 I replaced it with in my Kustom amp. But there is relatively little difference in sound between an Ei ECC83, E-H 12AX7, and JJ ECC83S that I recently experimented with. The Ei is a bit more microphonic, but otherwise sounds slightly better than the E-H and JJ to me. Better yet, all three give any NOS tube a run for their life and only cost around $10 each. You can pound the **** out of the E-H 12AX7 and it doesn't get microphonic.
I can definitely say that the Vintage 8 sounds better than the Super 8, but their discounted prices vary by about $40, so no surprise there and definitely expected and deserved.
There was a bigger difference in sound between the Chinese 12AX7 and the JJ, Ei, E-H, or NOS 12AY7 tubes, and the difference in cost was only $10 worst case.
If all you ever experimented with was the Ei, JJ, or E-H tubes I mentioned, you might wonder what all the hype with different tubes was about. Until you popped in one of those cheap Chinese tubes. I'll keep it around for when I want my amp to sound like a buzzsaw. It might work for metal playing.
The Chinese 12AX7 sounds like another world compared to the 12AY7 I replaced it with in my Kustom amp. But there is relatively little difference in sound between an Ei ECC83, E-H 12AX7, and JJ ECC83S that I recently experimented with. The Ei is a bit more microphonic, but otherwise sounds slightly better than the E-H and JJ to me. Better yet, all three give any NOS tube a run for their life and only cost around $10 each. You can pound the **** out of the E-H 12AX7 and it doesn't get microphonic.
I can definitely say that the Vintage 8 sounds better than the Super 8, but their discounted prices vary by about $40, so no surprise there and definitely expected and deserved.
There was a bigger difference in sound between the Chinese 12AX7 and the JJ, Ei, E-H, or NOS 12AY7 tubes, and the difference in cost was only $10 worst case.
If all you ever experimented with was the Ei, JJ, or E-H tubes I mentioned, you might wonder what all the hype with different tubes was about. Until you popped in one of those cheap Chinese tubes. I'll keep it around for when I want my amp to sound like a buzzsaw. It might work for metal playing.
"Microphonic" means that mechanical vibration of the tube causes a signal to be produced. This will lead to feedback problems, especially in combo amps where the tube is subjected to a lot of shaking. It causes sound distortion, from mild to wild, depending on the amount of microphonocity.
E-H and JJ seem to have the problem under control. The Ei works in stereo gear that doesn't get a lot of shaking, or an isolated amp head. Nobody has mentioned setting their amp head on sorbothane pucks like audiophiles do to isolate critical components from vibrations. Audioquest makes some nice ones. Music stores SHOULD sell them, but you can get them online from audiophile supply sources.
E-H and JJ seem to have the problem under control. The Ei works in stereo gear that doesn't get a lot of shaking, or an isolated amp head. Nobody has mentioned setting their amp head on sorbothane pucks like audiophiles do to isolate critical components from vibrations. Audioquest makes some nice ones. Music stores SHOULD sell them, but you can get them online from audiophile supply sources.
My Audioquest sorbothane pucks cost about $40 for a set of four, and most people would not want them included in the purchase price of an amp. Audioquest and others have already done it at an affordable price, so no reason for any amp makers to get involved.
Sometimes it's just better to get an amp head off the cabinet and set it on a stable platform.
Sometimes it's just better to get an amp head off the cabinet and set it on a stable platform.
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urizen
I'm surprised no one mentioned Top Hat---the Club Royale (2x12) is amazing w/ my 381V12 (or vice versa) and my '66 330; it is a remarkable amp with single coils period, aw, heck, it's just a wonderful amp, period. Ditto for the Vibra-Trem 20, by the same maker, both using circuit design elements from the original Vox AC15 and AC30 w/Top Boost. Dynamite at low volumes, capable of brill OD.
I can't imagine a finer amp---and it loves Teles (or vice versa) too.
The CR is MUCH more versatile though, not only KILLER Voxish, but capable of approaching both Marshall and Fender Deluxe territory depending on the low, mid, high, and presence eqs (all VERY interactive), rectifier setting ("sag" or fast/tight) , and treble or normal or "fat" setting.It's a better price than Bad Cat and Matchless, and at least the equal of either (and I'm just saying that to be polite; personally, I think it is superior) and at least as handsome as the original Matchless. Both of the Top Hats I named have a loud 20 watts, or you can move up to the King Royale @ a VERY loud 30 watts.
I can't imagine a finer amp---and it loves Teles (or vice versa) too.
The CR is MUCH more versatile though, not only KILLER Voxish, but capable of approaching both Marshall and Fender Deluxe territory depending on the low, mid, high, and presence eqs (all VERY interactive), rectifier setting ("sag" or fast/tight) , and treble or normal or "fat" setting.It's a better price than Bad Cat and Matchless, and at least the equal of either (and I'm just saying that to be polite; personally, I think it is superior) and at least as handsome as the original Matchless. Both of the Top Hats I named have a loud 20 watts, or you can move up to the King Royale @ a VERY loud 30 watts.
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wileyibex
A week or so ago, somebody asked how the Traynor YCV40 works with acoustic guitars. I have both elements of this question, so I tried it out last night. Observations from 4 guitars in a living room setting:
(1) This amp is LOUD, Bubba. Maybe a bit much for home use; one needs to crank it pretty close to the point of pain to get the full range of tones from it. Ouch. The idea of headphones JUST now occurred to me. Drat.
(2) Sounds fine with the Ric 360/12. Better than fine, in fact. Very clear and balanced sound with terrific string dynamics and definition. Pop the brightness boost on the lead channel, and crisp, jangly tones ensue. Add the gain, get some crunch. Tres nice. And did I mention that it's loud, too? Loud enough for any gig I can imagine that WOULDN'T be miked into a p.a., and certainly loud enough to use miked anywhere. This marks it as a potential touring amp, but now I should point out that it weighs about 53 lbs. Can you say caster wheels? Sure.
(3) The recently heavily-modded Tele sounds positively Billy-F-Gibbons-ish. The SD Pearly Gates humbucker in the neck position just eats this amp up with endless sutain (buttah), and the SD Alnico 2 in the bridge position could etch glass...Wow. Hair all up and down its back. So far, so good.
(4) The Taylor 814CE (w/Fishman blender system) needs a hug. There is a deep and abiding lack of mid-tones issuing from the Traynor's open-backed cabinet, and the overall sound is disappointing; just...well...hollow. I suppose that in a concert-type setting, one could raise the volume level enough to compensate somewhat, but there would still be that flat, empty tone. I never found a single tone I liked -- in either channel, with any settings on the amp or on the guitar.
(5) and the Seagull acoustic/electric 12-string (Baggs pickup system)? Ugh. Maybe not quite as vacant-sounding as the Taylor, but that may just be a funtion of those octave strings. Still no mid-tones, still pretty flat sounding.
Summary: The Traynor YCV 40 is a sub-$500 amp that is a serious, fire-breathing contender in the Your Next Amp category. It is deserving of serious consideration for players of Ric electric guitars, well-matched with the guitars to produce The Tone. Think of it as a smaller, lighter, louder alternative for a Fender Twin Reverb or possibly to one of the vaunted Vox AC-30 amps (at 1/3 the price.) I'd still say that build quality (of mine, anyway) is a bit dodgy, but then Le Duck has explained most eloquently that this is the case with many, if not most, brands. (Didn't stop you from buying that Marshall, did it?)
Now, on the other hand, when it comes to the Traynor YCV40 serving as an amp for your acoustic guitar(s), my advice is: look elsewhere. I understand that some of the Marshall's work well for acoustics, and then there's SWR, Crate, Yorkville (got one; ask about it some other time), and recently, Peavey -- who arrive with their usual highly-spec'ed, consumer-priced, widely-available product.
I've tried all three of the Fender Acousti-sonics, some extensively, and would say that for electric-guitar amps, they're not quite as bad as they COULD be for acoustics, and they're probably somewhat better than playing your acoustic guitar through a typical electric guitar amp. That, dear hearts, is to damn with faint praise.
Specifically, the Fender A/S 30 utterly blows. Bulky, with no tone, no volume, no effects...don't get me started. The A/S Junior blows less, but offers very little by way of tone, flexibility, or effects. The big one is a bit better, but at a price point that would have allowed purchase of a far superior amp.
Somewhere out there, there must be an amp that really and truly works well with both electric and acoustic guitars. Anybody seen one?
(1) This amp is LOUD, Bubba. Maybe a bit much for home use; one needs to crank it pretty close to the point of pain to get the full range of tones from it. Ouch. The idea of headphones JUST now occurred to me. Drat.
(2) Sounds fine with the Ric 360/12. Better than fine, in fact. Very clear and balanced sound with terrific string dynamics and definition. Pop the brightness boost on the lead channel, and crisp, jangly tones ensue. Add the gain, get some crunch. Tres nice. And did I mention that it's loud, too? Loud enough for any gig I can imagine that WOULDN'T be miked into a p.a., and certainly loud enough to use miked anywhere. This marks it as a potential touring amp, but now I should point out that it weighs about 53 lbs. Can you say caster wheels? Sure.
(3) The recently heavily-modded Tele sounds positively Billy-F-Gibbons-ish. The SD Pearly Gates humbucker in the neck position just eats this amp up with endless sutain (buttah), and the SD Alnico 2 in the bridge position could etch glass...Wow. Hair all up and down its back. So far, so good.
(4) The Taylor 814CE (w/Fishman blender system) needs a hug. There is a deep and abiding lack of mid-tones issuing from the Traynor's open-backed cabinet, and the overall sound is disappointing; just...well...hollow. I suppose that in a concert-type setting, one could raise the volume level enough to compensate somewhat, but there would still be that flat, empty tone. I never found a single tone I liked -- in either channel, with any settings on the amp or on the guitar.
(5) and the Seagull acoustic/electric 12-string (Baggs pickup system)? Ugh. Maybe not quite as vacant-sounding as the Taylor, but that may just be a funtion of those octave strings. Still no mid-tones, still pretty flat sounding.
Summary: The Traynor YCV 40 is a sub-$500 amp that is a serious, fire-breathing contender in the Your Next Amp category. It is deserving of serious consideration for players of Ric electric guitars, well-matched with the guitars to produce The Tone. Think of it as a smaller, lighter, louder alternative for a Fender Twin Reverb or possibly to one of the vaunted Vox AC-30 amps (at 1/3 the price.) I'd still say that build quality (of mine, anyway) is a bit dodgy, but then Le Duck has explained most eloquently that this is the case with many, if not most, brands. (Didn't stop you from buying that Marshall, did it?)
Now, on the other hand, when it comes to the Traynor YCV40 serving as an amp for your acoustic guitar(s), my advice is: look elsewhere. I understand that some of the Marshall's work well for acoustics, and then there's SWR, Crate, Yorkville (got one; ask about it some other time), and recently, Peavey -- who arrive with their usual highly-spec'ed, consumer-priced, widely-available product.
I've tried all three of the Fender Acousti-sonics, some extensively, and would say that for electric-guitar amps, they're not quite as bad as they COULD be for acoustics, and they're probably somewhat better than playing your acoustic guitar through a typical electric guitar amp. That, dear hearts, is to damn with faint praise.
Specifically, the Fender A/S 30 utterly blows. Bulky, with no tone, no volume, no effects...don't get me started. The A/S Junior blows less, but offers very little by way of tone, flexibility, or effects. The big one is a bit better, but at a price point that would have allowed purchase of a far superior amp.
Somewhere out there, there must be an amp that really and truly works well with both electric and acoustic guitars. Anybody seen one?
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ralph
YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF TO TEST A VOX VALVETRONIX
B-4 YOUR PURCHASE AN AMP. I HAVE TWO NOW. A COMBO
FOR PLAYING AT HOME & A VALVETRONIX HEAD & 2X12
CAB FOR GIGGING.I HAVE 2 RIC 12 STRINGS.
A 660TP, 360-12/V64, A STRAT & A TELE & THIS AMP
COMPLIMENTS THEM ALL WITH A LARGE VARITY OF PRE
SETS PLUS THE PROGRAMS I HAVE ADDED MYSELF.
AMPS HAVE BEEN TOTALLY RELIABLE FROM DAY 1.
YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT WHAT THIS AMP CAN DO
GOOD LUCK ON YOUR PURCHASE WHATEVER YOU CHOSSE
B-4 YOUR PURCHASE AN AMP. I HAVE TWO NOW. A COMBO
FOR PLAYING AT HOME & A VALVETRONIX HEAD & 2X12
CAB FOR GIGGING.I HAVE 2 RIC 12 STRINGS.
A 660TP, 360-12/V64, A STRAT & A TELE & THIS AMP
COMPLIMENTS THEM ALL WITH A LARGE VARITY OF PRE
SETS PLUS THE PROGRAMS I HAVE ADDED MYSELF.
AMPS HAVE BEEN TOTALLY RELIABLE FROM DAY 1.
YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT WHAT THIS AMP CAN DO
GOOD LUCK ON YOUR PURCHASE WHATEVER YOU CHOSSE
The YCV40 should NOT work well for acoustic guitar. It is a controlled distortion box designed to make electric guitars, and solid bodies in particular, sound full bodied and throaty.
If I were using it for acoustics, I would adapt it to be more high fidelity in nature. I would change out the output transformer for one that had 40% screen grid taps on the primary winding for converting it to ultralinear mode of operation. I'd probably get a Hammond audiophile transformer of hefty size for the wattage. I might try stiffening the power supply to the output stage. I would use speakers that were more high fidelity and extended in nature, probably two 8" speakers mounted in a new baffle board/enclosure. I would trade my Tung-Sol 5881 tubes for JJ 6L6GC tubes with more clean headroom before distorting (6L6B/5881 tubes were specifically chosen for their early distortion characteristics since this is a club style blues/rock amp). JJ ECC83S preamp tubes would provide a neutral sounding preamp and phase splitter. If keeping a 12" speaker, you would need something cleaner than a Celestion, such as an Electro-Voice, JBL, or Eminence PA speaker (bring $$$ and caster wheels). Maybe add a tweeter for crisper highs.
The bottom line is that an acoustic guitar already has a good tone and needs high fidelity amplification, not an open box that holds a Celestion Seventy 80 electric guitar speaker (a distortion generator in its own right) driven by an adjustable distortion generator. Getting a very good microphone that can plug into a PA system (if the places you play have high quality PA systems) might be the better route. I think Paul is finding that good acoustic amps might not be too plentiful, and will tend to suck if you want the same wattage at anywhere near the YCV40 price. High fidelity grade components drain your wallet, and will probably be necessary for the very best sounding acoustic guitar amps.
It's what makes the YCV40 suck as an acoustic guitar amp that makes it shine as an electric lead guitar amp. I'm not surprised by Paul's experience. I do not want my amps degraded by compromise that comes from trying to be all things at once, so I am happy that it has such good electric blues/rock tone, by using cheaper components that do not have high fidelity pedigrees.
If I were using it for acoustics, I would adapt it to be more high fidelity in nature. I would change out the output transformer for one that had 40% screen grid taps on the primary winding for converting it to ultralinear mode of operation. I'd probably get a Hammond audiophile transformer of hefty size for the wattage. I might try stiffening the power supply to the output stage. I would use speakers that were more high fidelity and extended in nature, probably two 8" speakers mounted in a new baffle board/enclosure. I would trade my Tung-Sol 5881 tubes for JJ 6L6GC tubes with more clean headroom before distorting (6L6B/5881 tubes were specifically chosen for their early distortion characteristics since this is a club style blues/rock amp). JJ ECC83S preamp tubes would provide a neutral sounding preamp and phase splitter. If keeping a 12" speaker, you would need something cleaner than a Celestion, such as an Electro-Voice, JBL, or Eminence PA speaker (bring $$$ and caster wheels). Maybe add a tweeter for crisper highs.
The bottom line is that an acoustic guitar already has a good tone and needs high fidelity amplification, not an open box that holds a Celestion Seventy 80 electric guitar speaker (a distortion generator in its own right) driven by an adjustable distortion generator. Getting a very good microphone that can plug into a PA system (if the places you play have high quality PA systems) might be the better route. I think Paul is finding that good acoustic amps might not be too plentiful, and will tend to suck if you want the same wattage at anywhere near the YCV40 price. High fidelity grade components drain your wallet, and will probably be necessary for the very best sounding acoustic guitar amps.
It's what makes the YCV40 suck as an acoustic guitar amp that makes it shine as an electric lead guitar amp. I'm not surprised by Paul's experience. I do not want my amps degraded by compromise that comes from trying to be all things at once, so I am happy that it has such good electric blues/rock tone, by using cheaper components that do not have high fidelity pedigrees.
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ted_williams
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2001 12:58 pm
I was given the opportunity to try out a Vox Valvetronix 60W combo for a couple weeks, and while it does what it does very well, there were two things that kept me from buying it (three if you count my wife...). First of all, I found the bottom end to be mushy - perhaps the head and cabinet combination would cure that. Secondly, the foot controller was little more than a toy.