Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Yah, Dane it is a great painkiller, but what we will never know is which came first the chicken or the egg. Was it the pain of dealing with Paul, the whole Beatles thing, his marriage or all of the above that led to heroin or did heroin and other drugs lead to his inability to deal with the above. We will never know and in the long run it doesn't matter, since John will never be able to tell us now and, as much as I like Paul, I doubt he has the insight.

Consider Lennon's youth and teenage years - he was in pain (mother, father, wicked aunt!), insecure/weak (his macho bravado, his mean streak/humor). Add to this unheard of success, adulation, sprinkle with a big chunk of your life put on public display. Got to twist a young man's head around. If anyone needed a painkiller, he did!
No one gave lessons on being a superstar in those days (though today they probably do at Disney).

I keep quoting the darned book, BUT "Liverpool Fantasy", the more I think and read, nails all these topics right square in the patootie...it really deals at length with the topic of the Four's own demons, and spins the results of their innate differences in a believable manner for all to see.

It, for instance, stops John's development at the end of Jerry's first sentence (above), and constructs a believable, complex, and sympathetic character out of the pain. And it does a creditable job on the other three, while taking small side trips into the psyches of Maureen, Cynthia, and Gerry Marsden, for example.

>No one gave lessons on being a superstar in those days

I was watching a biography of Judy Garland the other day on TV. Man-oh-man, talk about stunted development in an environment divorced from reality.... and drug addicted? You becha.

I suppose 99 44/100% of the people now in their 50's desperately wanted to "be a Beatle" at one point in their early lives. Obviously, the reality of that existence was a far cry from what we imagined as star-struck yoots.

Hey JJ...well, I've heard you speak about this book before...and it seems like we even discussed a comparison to P.K.Dick's "Man In The High Castle"...but I must say you've talked me into seeking this one out (Oprah's reading list be damned!)...

As someone who saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in '64 at the age of eight, I'll have to put myself in the 66/100% who didn't want to be a Beatle. I was, however, seized with a fervent desire to forego the weekly haircut at the Post barber shop...

>"Was it the pain of dealing with Paul, the whole Beatles thing, his marriage or all of the above that led to heroin or did heroin and other drugs lead to his inability to deal with the above."<

I think the real reason John got involved in heroin was the same reason anyone else does..or for that matter, why anyone decides to smoke pot for years on end.."because you can". Yoko had said they had initially taken heroin "as a celebration of ourselves as artists". It seems they justified continued use to numb the pain hurled at them for being together. I really don't think the Beatles mess was the impetus for drug use...was it really so much more painful for John above the others in that regard? (Paul did admit to experimenting with it much later). Many have said Yoko continued to use smack after John had quit, and one account has Yoko bereating May Pang for allowing him to indulge in cocaine; Yoko insisted heroin was "much better for him". (And yes, I'll take May Pang's accounts over Yoko's for accuracy any day).

'The Beatles as sidemen for Paul'....... perhaps it was because at the point of the last records, Paul was the only one who actually wanted to keep the group moving and actually existing.

>No one gave lessons on being a superstar in those days<<

If anything it's worse now. More cameras. More TV channels. Gossip on the web.

B list celebs today are stalked by satellite.

"One of the main reasons the Beatles ended is because... I pretty damn well know, we got fed up with being sidemen for Paul."..... "After Brian [Epstein] died we collapsed. Paul took over and supposedly led us. But what is leading us when we went round in circles?" - John Lennon

Imagine working those crummy stinky clubs in Hamburg and taking all the **** involved in that. Making it big then non stop working thanks to Brian Touring hit and runs, radio, tv spots, honoring old committments. Being pawed and photographed constantly. No privacy , can't go outside. Finally the Phillipine fiasco. I think they all wondered what it would be like to not be a Beatle. They were pressured and stressed in every which way shape and form. So they eventually cracked out of the Beatle egg and went off on their own. Plus Apple was a fiasco too, Not like minded on managers when the fit hit the shan. They all had hard feelings. But as time went on did'nt they sorta make up and restore the friendships?

I wonder if Macca and Ringo every put on full face masks in real cold weather territory and just enjoy walking out in public without being bothered.

"I've been through so much pain being a Beatle" - Ringo Starr

I think all four members were victims of the "be careful what you wish for..." syndrome. It's easy to think, especially when you're 20 years old, that money will solve a world of problems. While it can solve many, it may open doors to other problems that could have been avoided had the money not been available. They were also victims of trying to top themselves and of the dual-edged sword that has adulation on one side and hate on the other. Lennon surely would have had access to drugs if he'd never "made it." If drugs didn't kill him, he might still be alive simply because he'd never have had the public exposure that Beatlemania provided and Mark Chapman never would have known about him. However, John had marital problems with Cynthia that were made worse, not started, by Beatlemania. Musicians aren't the only ones who fall in love with another woman while they are still married. Nor are they the only ones who find out their wife is having an affair with a best friend, as in George's case. What you've seen in the lives of all four Beatles is what is happening every day across the street or down the block. You just don't see your neighbors dirty laundry on CNN. I often wondered why no one ever grabbed Paul and Linda and asked them to talk about why their marriage worked so well. Has anyone eversat down with Ringo and found out why he & Barbara overcame alcohol problems instead of just busting up? (I know Playboy did an interview with them that touched on this.) Did anyone ever write a story about how George & Olivia had a great marriage? That's what's truly amazing to me.

Great points, Dave.
We also have to remember that Lennon was prone to saying things for the purpose of sticking it to someone, and for a time he wanted to live down the Beatles' legacy and be known as John Lennon, artist. Most Lennon quotes or interviews I take as "maybe he felt that way, maybe he didn't".
Just as in the early days John was cheerleader for the band (Where're we going' lads? To the top, Johnny!) the roles might have shifted. This might have been to the other fabs relief and benefit, as it has been stated, Macca did push them to produce product. They might have got rich and lazy, but I'm sure creating, recording and collecting royalties still excited them, no matter how hard it was to drag themselves to Abbey road and look at each other.
And Paul was a sideman for the others as well. I don't think he minded.
If Paul had not bee so pushy, perhaps after Sgt. Pepper, there might have been only a single, final Beatle's album.

I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but the Tony Bramwell book "Magical Mystery Tour" is very good. It's nice to read something from someone who was actually there. Yoko doesn't come off very well (does she ever). Lots of funny stories.