Gretsch pick ups.

[fireglo67]

I understand what you are saying Paul but.....
My main concern for Rickenbacker would be that, as you point out, a massive amount of their business is based on the 'nostalgia factor'.
Pretty soon I feel we are going to come to a point where the next generation of the guitar buying public really don't listen to, or give a hoot about groups like The Beatles, Byrds, Who, Jam, Tom Petty etc. It's intersesting that the majority of the people on these Ric Forums are in our 40's and 50's, most of us have good jobs, little or no mortgages and so can indulge in things like expensive guitars, but we aren't going to be around forever.
I just hope that Ric aren't resting on their laurels and the 'nostalgia factor'. I don't see many new, young bands playing Rics, and if I was at the company, for me, that would be a concern.

[paologregorio]

It's a point to ponder, but strangely enough, there are plenty of twentysomethings who like bands like the Jam and the Beatles, are inspired by them, and buy Rickenbackers. I sometimes comment that it's like me being 20-something and being really into Benny Goodman, Harry James, or Count Basie...then again, I actually DID like those guys when I was in my mid 20s (the influence of WB cartoon music perhaps), though my elder siblings didn't like any of that stuff because it reminded them of cartoon music...and it was old hat that their parents liked.

There are also newer, younger bands that play Rickenbackers. Some like the bands that were mentioned, others probably couldn't care less about them. Just as with any other brand, people are going to buy a Rickenbacker because it appeals to them. I own reissue Fenders and Gretsches, in addition to my Rickenbackers, and it doesn't have anything to do with my worship of any band's music. I may have first noticed the guitar in question in an iconic photograph of some past artist. I have a Gretsch 6120, but I don't try to sound like Eddie Cochran or Chet Atkins. I also have a Duo Jet and a Tennessean and don't try to emulate George Harrison-I just think the guitars look and sound cool. My Silver Jet is gorgeous, thank you for the inspiration Billy Zoom, but I don't try to emulate him either.

As for Rickenbackers, I saw the Jam play them, and cut my teeth playing a lot of Jam and other punky covers, as well as Who songs (hey it's reasonably simple stuff to learn for a beginner), but I didn't want to be those guys, and I bought my first Ric before I was eighteen, my second by the time I was 19. The way the market is now, I think Ricks are probably guitars that people may buy one or two of when they're in their later 20s or 30s, then perhaps start to collect once they have more cash in their 40s and 50s, just like collectors of anything else. the 20-somethings of today are the 40-somethings of tomorrow; plenty of them will have the $ and the interest to collect Ricks at that point.

As for forum membership, I wouldn't worry that there are some young folks on the forum, but then again, I think that's something that people probably get more into once they're in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. Otherwise, they're more interested in different forums, if they're interested in online forums at all.

If you look around on You Tube enough, you'll see young players in bands playing Rickenbackers. I would venture to guess that the proportion of players using Rickenbackers in bands compared to other brands is probably proportional to the ratio of Rickenbackers in relation to Fender/Gibson/Gretsch; there aren't going to be as many folks playing them because the the numbers are less, and they have a different character, which is fine, because those other brands each have their own character as well.

[deaconblues]

Speaking as a young'un, I see groups of the 60s, 70s, and 80s enjoying a huge resurgence of popularity among people my age. Credit goes in large part to the stagnancy of modern popular rock music and the wealth of information and music on the Internet.

However, I think we'll start to see music move off in a different direction, for better or for worse. Someday the guitar market will fall...it's just a matter of time before you will be able to go into a local pawn shop and get a '59 Les Paul for $200 again.

If Rickenbacker had the resources, now would be the time to release all the vintage models possible while the market's still hot...observe the other big guitar companies and their reissue lines... However, as I said before, some models like the 360F are so expensive to build and have such a small demand that they wouldn't be worth the effort.

[jingle_jangle]

Depends on which 360F. The earlies would be a snap; the body and neck programs would have to be written for the CNC; 90% of the neck program is present; the neck/body joint part would have to be redone and put into toolpathing software.

Hardware is all standard.

Unfortunately, whereas the F is a Rick "Holy Grail" to us anal-compulsives, it's not a Rick to yer average buyer.

When I had my tiny design studio, I was nearly immune to short-term economic vagaries; I was so small that I always could find work.

Sorta the same with RIC; they're a boutique manufacturer with low capacity and a huge footprint. It seems like everybody's heard of them, their dealers are always clamoring for more, and I'd betcha the market for high-production instruments could lose 50% of its volume and RIC would be unaffected.

IMO.

One more point to ponder:

"Culture eats strategy for lunch."

[goofyfoot]

"Rain Man" response. Check out this Gretsch link:

Peace, out.....Goofyfoot

http://www.gretschguitars.com/resources ... tions.html

[deaconblues]

Cool link, Goofyfoot! Thanks.

[goofyfoot]

Cool link, Goofyfoot! Thanks.

You're most welcome, DP. The link has proven useful to me in the past. DynaSonics™ are on my G6128 TSP Duo Jet (George Harrison reissue), which has since been renamed "TDS" in lieu of "TSP." They're livelier, edgier, and hotter than Filter'Trons™ on my G6120 TM Chet Atkins, which rings with that "twang" only Gretsch can produce. I dig both guitars because I'm continually discovering newer nuances (tonally) for each of 'em. Best regards.....Goofyfoot.

[guitman]

Don't know much about the pickups on modern Gretsch guitars but I noticed some misinformation in this thread. What Gretsch called Dynasonics are identical with the DeArmond model 2000 pickup. These were also used on some Guild guitars, notably some of the T-100 "Slim Jim" later known as Starfire II and III and also early Duane Eddy Model Guilds. I had a Duane Eddy Guild back in the late 60's, great guitar. I now own a 2000 DeArmond by Guild Starfire Special which is equipped with DeArmond 2k pickups. Guitar was made in Korea with pickups labeled "DeArmond USA". I think of it as a poor man's Gretsch. As some may be aware, Fender now owns Guild and DeArmond as well. The Dynasonic is one of the hottest pickups out there, louder than a Gibson Humbucker. I notice when I plug in my Country Club after playing my Rick 12 (toaster pickups) that the Gretsch is way louder than the Rick and I have to turn down the amp for equal volume.

DeArmond 2000 (Dynasonic) pickups are the pickups heard on most all of Bo Diddley's hits, early Chet Atkins records, all of Duane Eddy's stuff and Eddie Cochran played a 6120 with a DeArmond at the bridge and a Gibson P-90 at the neck. This was a really fancy early Chet model with the western inlays and G brand.

Other pickups on old Gretsches were the Filtertron which was a humbucker designed and made by DeArmond after Chet Atkins complained of noise in the recording studio. In 1963 I owned a 6119 Chet Atkins model which had one pickup in the bridge position. The pickup was called a Supertron and had no adjustment screws, just rails. In my opinion this was the best humbucker design that Gretsch used, I like it better than the Filtertron. The worst pickup that Gretsch had (IMO) was the HiLoTron used on the 6119 Tennessean and the Anniversary Models. These are kind of weak. On my website in the MP3 section you can hear me playing a borrowed Tennessean on the live cuts with Japanese musicians Dr. kyOn and Yotchan. This Tennessean was finished in 2-tone Sage Green like an Anniversary model, the only one I've ever seen in this color. I think it may have been refinished in this color, I suppose I could ask the owner, Romel Amado, my friend from Kobe.

I hope this clears up some things about the pickups on historic Gretsches.

[guitman]

Here's a link to me playing HiLoTrons in Japan, 1997: http://www.flyingsnail.com/Podcast/Down ... Apiece.mp3

Here's a link to me playing DeArmond 2000 pickups (Dynasonics), recorded direct into computer, no amp: http://www.flyingsnail.com/Podcast/worn ... sEMI78.mp3 As you can hear, I love my Bigsby!

[jingle_jangle]

Welcome, Mike!

"Wood and Wire" is on the CD player right now, and it's like having you in the room.

The De Armond 2Ks that Gretsch uses these days are not the same as the DeArmond 2000s in current production. Both look similar from the top to the old DeArmonds from the '50s and '60s, but the three are not even close in terms of construction or sound.

The 2Ks, offered in the 51XX series Korean Gretsch Electromatics, are flat-backed, use bar magnets and have plated ABS bezels. In other words, cheap.

The "new" 2000s are also flat backed, but have magnets as polepieces. The 200s have stamped plated metal bezels and six long Alnico magnets protruding about 1/2" from the back.

Above: 2K, 2000 on top, 200 on bottom.

Drop me a line if you wish, and I'll send you a link to a discussion of these on the Gretsch Pages Forum.

[guitman]

Thanks for the info on the later DeArmonds.

The USA made (Fender) DeArmond "2k"s on my year 2000 Starfire Special appear to be pretty much identical with the Dynasonics (DeArmond 2000) on my '54 Club except the ones on the Starfire have white plastic instead of black which is how Guild DeArmonds were. They sound pretty much the same too although the Starfire Special has a shorter scale length and a solid center block which means there is less "wood" sound. Spectral analysis shows a pronounced kick-up around 3k Hz. This is the upper mid-range which gives them terrific treble bite as can be heard on my version of Worn Out Suits. They are stamped "DeArmond USA" on the side of the metal surrounds facing the bass side of the guitar. The Club is very microphonic and if I shout into it my voice will come through the amp. DeArmonds were also found on the short lived late '60s Martin electric guitars.

A side note, I'm using flat wounds on all my guitars these days, D'Addario Chromes. Using the light guage jazz set on the acoustic guitars and the same on the electrics with the trebles replaced with .017", .013", .010". The flat wounds really make a pronounced pop through the echo delay when damped...great for surf music as well as rock and blues. They last forever, the set on my Starfire Spl. has been on the guitar since August 2007 (!!!) though the top E has been replaced twice.

[jingle_jangle]

All my single coil Fenders run flatties...My Jag, through a modded reissue Fender outboard tube reverb into my '67 Dual Showman, do that "wet pop" thing that (to many) says, "surf", and after it got your attention, it could wrinkle your eardrums with treble with the volume knob barely past 3...

[guitman]

Amen, brother!
BTW flatwounds on a Dynasonic 6120 into a Fender Twin Reverb with a touch of tremolo dialed in will get the exact "Duane" (Eddy not Allman) twang on the low strings using the bridge pickup.

My poor man's Gretsch, been using this for most gigs since I retired my Club from the road:

Slight modifications are A real Bigsby tailpiece without the stock tailpiece's extra roller, i painted pickups black with a sharpie (originally white) and added a strip of black electrical tape to simulate footing of a floating bridge. That's my wife's picture in the "cameo" of the Bigsby.

[soundmasterg]

Just a slight correction or two. The old Dynasonics were the DeArmond 200, not the DeArmond 2000. Also, Ray Butts designed the old Filtertrons and not DeArmond. See the link for an interview with Ray Butts.

Greg

http://scottymoore.net/Ray_Butts_interview.html

[blue330]

Useful info here, thanks. I recently bought an old guitar with a HiLo Tron- I get the impression these don't do much for anybody. Are there any fans of this pickup? I don't have any real world experience with it yet, but I often think low-output pickups have a good sound. Still it seems like the Dynasonic may be a better-sounding unit?