Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

johnallg wrote:

Ric N. Backer wrote:Papa might just get a new 4003 and do the 4000 conversion.

I'm in a 4000 mood.

Remember, the 4000 was a dot neck, not a shark toothed. If you want to hear how a 4000 would sound, plug your mono cable into the Ric-O-Sound jack and you only get the bridge circuitry.

Yes, them pesky dots! I considered getting a C64 4001. But I can get a brand new 4003 (2010 with slim two-piece neck, for just a little over $1,400). Another $50 for the 4000 repro pick guard, and $5.00 for a volume pot (already have a brand new tone pot and input jack - plus wire).

How much different will that (what you detailed above) be (with respect to tone) from when I play my 2009 4003 with just the bridge pick up on (three-way switch down - engaging treble pick up only)?

I've been gassing for a 4000 for years. Problem is that the prices are too high and I'd be concerned about the instrument's history (genealogy). There are a lot of folks out there that haven't been kind to their Rics over the years, as you know.

I really think I'd enjoy a 4000. 40% of the time I play with just the bridge pick up. The other 59% is with both pick ups, and 1% of the time is with just the neck pick up. Not a big fan of neck-pick up only.

Robert, on your 2009, take your mono instrument cable, plug it into the ROS jack (not the Standard), and you will be shorting the neck pup and electronics to ground and only getting the bridge pup with the vol and tone controls. Then you will hear what a self-made 4000 would sound like. Remember though, the 50s-early 60s 4000 had a magnetic horseshoe pickup wound to about 5k, and all the set and thru neck models from the 70s had an about 8.4k higain pup. The new (and your 2009) higains are about 12k windings and will be hotter and muddier sounding.

johnallg wrote:Robert, on your 2009, take your mono instrument cable, plug it into the ROS jack (not the Standard), and you will be shorting the neck pup and electronics to ground and only getting the bridge pup with the vol and tone controls. Then you will hear what a self-made 4000 would sound like. Remember though, the 50s-early 60s 4000 had a magnetic horseshoe pickup wound to about 5k, and all the set and thru neck models from the 70s had an about 8.4k higain pup. The new (and your 2009) higains are about 12k windings and will be hotter and muddier sounding.

I tried it on a small amp at low volume. I couldn't hear a difference between using the the two different jacks. Using the Standard jack one with just the bridge pick up activated, sounded the same as using the ROS jack, which activates just the bridge pick up. I understand what you are saying. I'll try it again tomorrow using my Ampeg and 4-10 HLF bottom, though, to see if I can hear a difference in tone.

What you point out is interesting - with respect to the different pick ups. Would using the .047 cap, or another cap with a different value, with the modern high gain pup, simulate the vintage tone to some degree? I ask because you mentioned the hotter pup is muddier sounding.

Perhaps the push/pull tone pot is the way to go.

Also, I did a search here on pots. Apparently, the older Rics used 250k volume pot and 500k tone pots. Today, Ric uses 330 pots. I wonder how much of a difference (in tone) the different pots would contribute, given the current high gain pup?

I have a 4000 made in 1974 and it sounds different from my 4001C64 when using the bridge PU only. Not sure why, the 4000 just sounds amazing. Growly, biting, in your face. On my C64, I like both PUs or the neck PU only.

The original old 4000 basses didn't have the cap, IIRC, but I believe the 70s ones did? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As to capping the 12k to try and sound like an 8k pup, not the same. The toasters and 70s higains have a clarity to the notes (more overtones) than the new 12k higains. Some would say thin and weak. Depends on if you like note clarity or the boomier bass sound. Over-generalizations, but you get the idea.

Pot values, 300k vs 250k/500k - if you are building a new pickguard to swap in while creating your 4000 repro use the 250/500k ones. If not, don't worry about it.

One other difference I just remembered, 4000 basses don't have body binding.

johnallg wrote:The original old 4000 basses didn't have the cap, IIRC, but I believe the 70s ones did? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

4000's never had a cap.

johnallg wrote:The original old 4000 basses didn't have the cap, IIRC, but I believe the 70s ones did? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As to capping the 12k to try and sound like an 8k pup, not the same. The toasters and 70s higains have a clarity to the notes (more overtones) than the new 12k higains. Some would say thin and weak. Depends on if you like note clarity or the boomier bass sound. Over-generalizations, but you get the idea.

Pot values, 300k vs 250k/500k - if you are building a new pickguard to swap in while creating your 4000 repro use the 250/500k ones. If not, don't worry about it.

One other difference I just remembered, 4000 basses don't have body binding.

I guess a 4000 with shark-tooth inlays and binding would be considered a 4000 Deluxe.

Ric N. Backer wrote:
I guess a 4000 with shark-tooth inlays and binding would be considered a 4000 Deluxe.

Well...Actually, RIC did produce at least one such beast:

http://www.rickenbacker.com/gallery_ima ... _year=1960

rickaddict wrote:

Ric N. Backer wrote:
I guess a 4000 with shark-tooth inlays and binding would be considered a 4000 Deluxe.

Well...Actually, RIC did produce at least one such beast:

http://www.rickenbacker.com/gallery_ima ... _year=1960

Wow! That's absolutely amazing. Thnaks for posting.

I LOVE this place!!!

hey jimmy luttrell-move your elbow!! you're blocking my view-that is a stunning bass!!!! thanks for posting that,jeff!

Robert if you've never heard the mono jack plugged into Ric-O-Sound (isolating the bridge pickup and VT circuit) through a serious bass amp you have not really heard the difference. There is a definite increase in clarity and growl.

cassius987 wrote:Robert if you've never heard the mono jack plugged into Ric-O-Sound (isolating the bridge pickup and VT circuit) through a serious bass amp you have not really heard the difference. There is a definite increase in clarity and growl.

Joshua, I have to say that this sounds a little condensending.

I've pluged my Ric into my Ampeg half-stack, and do not hear any difference in tone, between the one jack and the other. The bridge pick up, when played alone thorugh either jacks, sounds the same. The difference in tone must be minuimal to non-existent.

Perhaps some can discern the difference, but not me. I think this may be along similar lines as folks who can hear tonal differences on open fretted E-A-D-G strings, when played on zero-fretted Ric basses compared to non-zero-fretted basses. It's rather minute and pointless.

Since both volume controls are always in the circuit no matter which pickup is selected it would reduce the resistance to ground in half. This theoretically would bleed off more of the top end.

Ken, did you sell yours to Stanley?

I don't remember who I sold it to. That was about 40 years ago.