Getting a Vintage Rickenbacker Bass restored ?

[cheyenne]

OK, I think I catch the drift now. Still a little puzzled though.

[godber]

There are review sections on other forums, mainly for providing useful feedback on seller/buyer transactions. Perhaps a review area encompassing luthier work could deal fairly with what is happening here?

[Lefty4003S8]

Will somebody PLEASE PM me with hard, solid info. as to WHAT everyone is alluding to?????

This "Cloak and Dagger" stuff is getting to me...as I am thinking of throwing some MAJOR work toward a luthier who can work on Ricks.
I agree with the people who are advocating for a venue HERE where restoration/repair experiences can be shared openly---NO gossip or slander,
but honest, helpful info.

Lefty4003S8

[email protected]

[DriftSpace]

Will somebody PLEASE PM me with hard, solid info. as to WHAT everyone is alluding to?????

Sure thing; PM sent.

Though it might be better for us all to post things publicly: I suppose it serves almost the same purpose if people inquire privately about individual experiences.

However, it doesn't send the same message to the craftspeople.

[DriftSpace]

OK, I think I catch the drift now. Still a little puzzled though.

This is exactly the problem; if there are issues: they should be abundantly clear to potential customers.

[admin]

There are ways to share concerns that are objective and respectful at the same time. There is no difficulty commenting on concerns owners have had with regard to the manner in which their instrument falls short. It becomes a problem where the information is conveyed in harsh and disrespect ways. Manufacturers, dealers, and owners have feelings too.

[DriftSpace]

There are ways to share concerns that are objective and respectful at the same time. There is no difficulty commenting on concerns owners have had with regard to the manner in which their instrument falls short. It becomes a problem where the information is conveyed in harsh and disrespect ways. Manufacturers, dealers, and owners have feelings too.

Right, but if someone promises a certain quality of work, subsequently does not deliver, and are told "you did not deliver on the promised level of quality": it's not really a matter of whose feelings are hurt; it's just what is. Sure, quality is subjective, but (for example) in my dealings with Paul W. he never once questioned my criticism, and usually agreed with me about the quality of workmanship. The same thing happened when the person who installed a window in my basement did a terrible job; I told him I thought he could do better, and he agreed. These people could have moped about it, but they were both mature professionals who saw it as both a learning experience and an opportunity to improve their craft. Yes, people can have their feelings hurt by being told they didn't do a good job, but how else are people supposed to learn how to do a good job? Some people just aren't open to criticism, and that doesn't mean that the criticism isn't valid or deserved; it means the person isn't mature/experienced/self-aware enough to deal with it.

At some point people (hopefully adults) need to be able to take responsibility for their own feelings, but I agree with you, Peter, that consumers also have a responsibility to convey their experiences in a thoughtful manner, and as objectively as possible.

[Ashgray]

Sean

Just so you clearly understand where I'm coming from - any issues I might have with a professional's work are between me and him. I recognise that there are wider interests at stake, particularly if members are seeking recommendations or otherwise when looking for someone to do work on their instruments, but that does not change my view. I have offered to share information privately, which is as far as I will go - what part of that is unclear?

As Sepp has said, it's very easy to be drawn into polarised arguments that can quickly get out of hand, people get upset and threads get locked. I will not be responsible that happening here - I'm not into public floggings.

Ash

[DriftSpace]

I have offered to share information privately ... people get upset and threads get locked. I will not be responsible that happening here - I'm not into public floggings.

I understand and agree, and this might be the best solution presently; perhaps there should be a list of luthiers/techs/craftspeople, and a corresponding list of customers willing to privately field questions. It would certainly be easier for would-be customers to know which people to ask about what experiences. As things are now: it potentially takes a lot of digging to just know if there's dirt, or where to find it.

[jps]

I totally agree with everything Ashley just laid out above. The days of public hangings are over (except in certain other faraway lands..............)

[DriftSpace]

I do think the following is a great example of how this information can be shared publicly, yet is also respectful, with the author seemingly open to further details shared privately:

I'll go on record that I won't be sending any work to Paul to do for me. As I have in the past. He did a great job on my Blackstar but a recent dealing with him has changed my opinion about doing any future business.

People know that Sepp worked with Paul, has reservations, and know that he might be open to a private discussion regarding the details.
I don't think Sepp's admission qualifies as a "public hanging," and I think it's a happy medium between being overly critical and non-specific.

[Ashgray]

As things are now: it potentially takes a lot of digging to just know if there's dirt, or where to find it.

It doesn't take much digging to send a PM.... As I'm getting tired of saying, I'm happy to advise privately, but if anyone's interest in this matter is purely about seeing the dirt getting dished out publicly, go somewhere else for entertainment as I won't be providing it here.

Ash

[DriftSpace]

As things are now: it potentially takes a lot of digging to just know if there's dirt, or where to find it.

It doesn't take much digging to send a PM.... As I'm getting tired of saying, I'm happy to advise privately, but if anyone's interest in this matter is purely about seeing the dirt getting dished out publicly, go somewhere else for entertainment as I won't be providing it here.

Ash

You seemed to be concerned about hurting other people's feelings and making a public display, but make no bones about rolling your eyes at me. Deal with it as you like; I don't have a problem with you offering information privately and appreciate that you offered it; was that not clear to you? People know it's available, and you made that clear; why are you assuming that this is an attack on you and how you are dealing with this? Me asking questions is not an attack: it's asking questions to facilitate discussion.

My only concern here is helping new people find the right people to work with, and I don't think it's worthy of eye-rolling or condescension via repeating yourself. If it makes you feel better to address people that way: good for you.

Thanks for helping-out the new guy by sending him a PM; I've also sent a few upon request. I can't help but think that some of us could make it easier for newbies to find us, and that new people might not always know to ask around; some people think asking-around is rude. It's not all-or-nothing; there's a happy medium (as I believe Sepp represented) to this problem.

The point is: you have helped convince me that part of this happy medium is letting people know where to find the information, and that sending a PM -- as long as they know where to send it -- is a great solution to the problem.

[Ashgray]

As things are now: it potentially takes a lot of digging to just know if there's dirt, or where to find it.

It doesn't take much digging to send a PM.... As I'm getting tired of saying, I'm happy to advise privately, but if anyone's interest in this matter is purely about seeing the dirt getting dished out publicly, go somewhere else for entertainment as I won't be providing it here.

Ash

You seemed to be concerned about hurting other people's feelings and making a public display, but make no bones about rolling your eyes at me.

Only because you seem to want to make this public, whereas I'm going to some effort to avoid that, and the fallout that I think would inevitably follow if it were.

I've not assumed any attack on me, consequently I feel no need to deal with that, and I'll not say anything further to you on the subject. Let's simply agree to disagree.

Ash

[ram]

Asking for a recommendation and getting 'use this person or that one' is fine. Saying that one of the persons who was recommended sucks, is a butt head or some other unprofessional or rude phrase or name is not fine. Something like I used to use that person but now don't is OK too as long as any discussion about this takes place in private. If someone feels strong enough, in a negative way, about someone's performance or quality of work it should be PMed to the requester. After all they are looking for recommendations, not trashing. And remember there are 'customers' out there you just can't please or work with; who may give a trashy review of an otherwise fine craftsman. But none of this should be aired out in public. Like mom used to say 'if ya can't say something nice don't say anything at all - on a public forum'... or something like that. OK, I'm done with the soapbox.