Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

harley wrote:I wouldn't necessarily like to see a budget bass but I would like to see a short scale bass. Yes, they do not sell as well as the full scale ones but that may be because there aren't that many good ones out there.

+1

I think any US guitar manufacturer will have looked at the Fender Japan situation and pretty much decided that it's not worth the risk. Give the Japanese factories your designs, let them use your name and then sit back and watch them churn out perfect re-creations with zero QC issues at a fraction of the cost. No wonder Fender USA have been trying to block as much as they can of these instruments from reaching the rest of the world (even used ones). I am not alone in refusing to pay the ridiculous premium for a 'Made in USA' sticker, and if the equivalent Rickenbacker branded instruments were being made at Fuji-Gen or similar, then I would have no hesitation in selling my American Ric, acquiring the same model from Japan, and then having a nice holiday on the spare cash.

These forums are littered with people wishing for 4003s models, 3000's, 4000's and all sorts of historical variations. Just give the men from the land of the rising sun an example instrument and there would be many happy Rickenbacker fans actually playing their dream instrument rather than wishing their lives away.

It's a scary thought, but if all bass manufacturers followed the Ric business model, then people would have to wait an awful long time and save up an awful lot of money before they could even start learning to play. So 'budget' basses have a very important place in the grand scheme of things, in fact probably more important than any 'high-end' brand.

We should be thankful Fender forgot to renew their patents all those years ago.

aceonbass wrote:Fender didn't forget to renew their patents, they neglected to protect their trademarks. Fender is currently building guitars and basses in Japan, at least the Jaguar series of instruments, so they are obviously not trying to block the sale of their own products made there. Most "copy" instruments are made in China and Korea now anyway, not Japan. The "Made In USA" sticker is not what makes a Rick expensive, it's the fact that they're unique, quality instruments designed and built here by other Americans making a reasonable living wage. I take this into account when buying anything brand new. Now I wouldn't expect any of that to matter that much to anyone living outside the U.S. since they have their own local economies to worry about, but if you live here and feel that Made In The USA isn't worth the extra expense, sooner or later it may be your turn to surrender your job and standard of living to someone in another country who is more than willing to do the job for less.

Well put Dane. You don't have to look too far to see many if not the majority of industries that have already left the US or the pain that the auto industry is going through now.

ken_j wrote:

aceonbass wrote:Fender didn't forget to renew their patents, they neglected to protect their trademarks. Fender is currently building guitars and basses in Japan, at least the Jaguar series of instruments, so they are obviously not trying to block the sale of their own products made there. Most "copy" instruments are made in China and Korea now anyway, not Japan. The "Made In USA" sticker is not what makes a Rick expensive, it's the fact that they're unique, quality instruments designed and built here by other Americans making a reasonable living wage. I take this into account when buying anything brand new. Now I wouldn't expect any of that to matter that much to anyone living outside the U.S. since they have their own local economies to worry about, but if you live here and feel that Made In The USA isn't worth the extra expense, sooner or later it may be your turn to surrender your job and standard of living to someone in another country who is more than willing to do the job for less.

Well put Dane. You don't have to look too far to see many if not the majority of industries that have already left the US or the pain that the auto industry is going through now.

Yes, very well put!

aceonbass wrote:The "Made In USA" sticker is not what makes a Rick expensive, it's the fact that they're unique, quality instruments designed and built here by other Americans making a reasonable living wage. I take this into account when buying anything brand new. Now I wouldn't expect any of that to matter that much to anyone living outside the U.S. since they have their own local economies to worry about, but if you live here and feel that Made In The USA isn't worth the extra expense, sooner or later it may be your turn to surrender your job and standard of living to someone in another country who is more than willing to do the job for less.

The 'Made In USA' sticker (or decal) adds a premium to the cost of a Fender. This is more noticable as the 'cheaper' Japanese models can be held up and we can compare like-for-like and make an informed decsion on 'bang-for-buck'. If I was inclined to consider national economies, I would have to take into account my own domestic state of affairs first and, faced with the choice of having to shell out extra for 'Made in U.S.A' or scoring an identical instrument 'Crafted in Japan' then I would have to go Japanese or possibly not be able to afford a first-class Fender.

We can't do this with a Rickenbacker until Fuji-Gen start churning out Rickenbacker(Japan) instruments at half the cost. My point was that we are unlikely to see this happen because of the success (globally) of Fender's Japanese instruments and the increasing difficulty of being able to acquire these gems ouside of Japan.

As for a truly 'budget' Rickenbacker (bolt-on, dot inlay, no binding, BBOT bridge etc), I see no reason why not.
Make them all one colour - sort of creamy yellow and call them (Chris) 'Squier by Rickenbacker'. They would not be competing with the current models as they would be aimed at the less-well-off market who would at least be able to emulate their heroes until they got rich enough to afford a 'proper' one.

I keep reading on forums about people finally acquiring a Ric and finding they just don't get on with it. This could be attributed to spending their playing lives up to that point on budget instruments (probably Fender clones) and finding that style of bass suits them. If cheap Rics were available for kids starting out, then doesn't that increase the chances (and market) of them moving up to a proper Ric in later life?

SamBailler wrote:

Make them all one colour - sort of creamy yellow and call them (Chris) 'Squier by Rickenbacker'.

Surely you jest.

aceonbass wrote: If you "cant" afford a Rick, then you obviously don't want it bad enough.

That's true, but I would never want a luxury 'bad enough' in front of all of life's other essential spending commitments.

aceonbass wrote: Something tells me that not only does SamBailler not live in the U.S., but that he doesn't even own a Rick.

No, I don't live in the U.S. (it would certainly make US guitar purchases a whole lot cheaper) and I am currently on my fourth Ric (FG 4003). I'm interested as to how you came to the conclusion I didn't own a Ric. 'Approves of the idea of a budget Ric' therefore 'doesn't own one'. I'm not getting the logic there at all.

This thread really is one of those "What if...." kind of things.
Creating a budget line is as Mr. Hall says, diluting the brand. This would have a negative impact on the value of the regular line and all those instruments you and I already own.
But its is not like this is something that we need to worry about happening.
If you can not afford a Ric, there really are lots of great instruments made by other manufacturers at much more affordable prices. You could get one of those and contiunue to save for the Ric you really wanted. You don't want a budget model anyway, you want the a 4003 or a 360 or whatever, am I right?

I still think the important thing here is what we mean by a "budget range bass."

Some people here seem to be talking about cheap clones of a 4001/3 only with a bolt-on neck, cheaper hardware, and made outside the USA. To that I say ABSOLUTELY NOT. Cheap clones will dilute the brand.

But designing an entirely new model that is less expensive to produce, (but still up to Rickenbacker's high quality standards) and making it in the USA (maybe at a second facility)?

Why TF not?

Imagine the fun new retro design possibilities. Make it lightweight and simple. Make use of existing iconic Rickenbacker designs like the toaster pickup to save on R&D. Maybe use a bolt-on neck. Maybe use Nitro if it makes more sense to keep production costs down.

Not that the Lakland Decade is a budget bass (I'm pretty sure the US-made version actually has a higher MSRP than the 4003!), but I like it as an example of an entirely new retro-styled instrument that looks like it could probably be made less expensively than a 4003.
So (obviously), I say YES!...Why not introduce a high-quality US-made budget range bass? The Les Paul has a cool, fun, less expensive brother in the SG, and I see nothing but fun possibilities for a less expensive brother to the 4003 as well.

SamBailler wrote:I'm interested as to how you came to the conclusion I didn't own a Ric.

SamBailler wrote: I am not alone in refusing to pay the ridiculous premium for a 'Made in USA' sticker.

That's what made me think you didn't own a Rick Mr.Bailler

aceonbass wrote:

SamBailler wrote:I'm interested as to how you came to the conclusion I didn't own a Ric.

SamBailler wrote: I am not alone in refusing to pay the ridiculous premium for a 'Made in USA' sticker.

That's what made me think you didn't own a Rick Mr.Bailler

Read the posts. My 'Made in USA' sticker moan refers to Fenders (of which I own several Japanese models). The Rick 'Made in USA' sticker doesn't come at a premium, because there is no other 'Made In...' available for Rics.

I thought about the "kids" learning bass might go for Fender or others and not come to Rickenbacker when they can afford one, but since the factory is back-logged, I don't think that's the case. Let students play student basses. Let pros (or people that can afford pro gear) buy Rickenbackers.

Maybe this isn't appropriate to this discussion, but I have found that my blood pressure remains lower when I recognize that there are some questions that aren't worth trying to answer. What I mean is, RIC has no interest in introducing a budget range bass. I think they've been pretty clear about that. Given that, this discussion, to me, is on par with questions like:

When I sent an offer to that guy selling that bass on eBay, shouldn't he have taken it since his asking price is too high?
Should the [girl/guy] I asked out that rejected me have instead gone out with me?
Should it have rained on my way to work today, isn't it really unfair that I got wet?

You may have an answer you feel strongly about, but it doesn't change the outcome, and you'll be much happier if you don't get too invested in the question. Sure, it's fun to speculate about why things turned out how they did, or what might have been different, but getting worked up about it only accomplishes one thing: you get worked up. I, for one, find that getting worked up is not a lot of fun.

Take a deep breath. Enjoy the things that are instead of focusing to the point of obsession on what could be better. I guarantee you'll be a happier person that way.