Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Karl, I thought that we were talking about the "back" of the guitar, not the front. As you may know, the back consists of a flat piece. (whether its a single piece or a two piece or a ply). We weren't talking about a "replica" body. I can't say that I've EVER seen a clear pic of the back of Lennon's '58 325. I think that we all have come here to share our knowledge. We can certainly agree on one thing.....we love The Beatles!

Karl, You and Larry are the only ones saying anything about the whole body being replaced, John Hall only mentioned the back. This could make a big difference as far as both theories are concerned.

It doesn't sound all that far-fetched that a back made of plywood could have been put on the guitar given the circumstances, this would be a much quicker repair.

German manufactuers (Hofner being one of them) used plywood in their construction at that time, and in fact the wood in the flat back on my old 500/1 doesn't look all too different from the backs I've seen on the 1959-1960 Rickenbacker 310's and 315's I've had in my lap...

I'm with you Karl. Friendly joking aside, I think we can all share ideas without taking it to a personal level. Knowing the folks here, I think that some are having you on.

This is a passionate and complicated topic and something that took place 45 years ago! It is certainly going to be a while before the dust settles. I do think however, that there is a chance that we will learn more. I would be thrilled to see something new uncovered.

I originally thought this was about the back too. Then some information on the body being replicated came in.

There are photos out there that show the back of V81 soon after Lennon received it. I have seen some of them on other sites in regards to the correct shape of V81's neck heel. The grain that can be seen matches the grain on V81 in Japan from those that have made the pilgrimage to go study the guitar.

Thats why Larry continues to repeat himself with the original photos taken of the Beatles in Hamburg in the ealy period.

Has anyone here really seen the back of a real Capri 325 much less own one? Larry has owned several and has also studied V81 in Japan.

I say those that have done their homework are the ones that know whats up.

Well, I was never one for homework. ;-p

Let's see the photos of the back after Lennon received it. Only Larry mentioned the "clone" Lennon guitars. I have a hard time believing that the ones in Japan are clones.

I've a good pic of the heel, but it's after the guitar was painted black, late '62...I've heard the clone story too, sounds like a reach to me as well.

I'm with JWilli, if anyone's got the early pics, post 'em..

Larry was the first one on this thread to mention a whole body-swap on V81, so what's the 'rest of the story' Larry? How/why does it go from just the back to the whole body?

As far as the run over theory, I once ran over a Guild semi hollow body and an SG with a 66 Pontiac Bonneville (and styled very nicely I might add, Paul) station wagon which are huge and heavy. All that happened was the hardware got pushed in on the Guild which was the top guitar as they were stacked on top of each other, knobs, pickups etc. I stopped right on top of the two guitars with my front tire, the wood was fine. The guitarist was directing me. I think he smoked a little too much of something that day. He got a little excited when he realized, haha!

I wouldn't find it hard to believe that Yoko had clones made of JLs guitars, she's already done it with a ton of other Lennon stuff, clothing is the worst. Pepper jackets, army jackets, leather jackets, etc. She's done it and it's very well documented.

Like a lot of the pros here, I've got a load of Beatle pics from the negs, plus every Beatle book monthly ever published, a ton of books from all over the world, etc. bla bla bla... we've heard it all before. We all have issues with collecting these things, lol. I have only ever seen two photos (off the negs, licensed for our upcoming book) that show the back of V81 and you can't see the wood grain in them. If others exist elsewhere, I would love to see them because this is a pretty important issue. If the back were replaced before it was refin'd to black, there would likely be no way to tell at this point because of the RD refin, it's been sanded, etc.

I don't agree that the wood grain matches on the top pics "recently" taken for Tony Bacon and Andy Babiuk, to any of the pre-black refin pics out there. I do see the wave in the neck blank through the headstock in the bacon pics that looks similar to the factory carpet shot (2 knob), but check out the proto pic of the 325C58 on the RIC website, it has it too.



Karl, are you saying that Larry studied pictures of the back of Lennon's guitar before he went to Japan to the museum there? Larry, is that true? I'm only asking because I didn't see Larry state that here.

I'm a big believer in wood grain matches, it's a finger print that can't easily be replicated.

Hey, Karl--just kiddin' about what's in your glass--from your name I expected you to say something like, "Hefeweisen" or something.

I apologize if my comment was taken as some sort of personal remark. That was not intended.

I smoke a pipe with a nice Cavendish tobacco, like many other insufferable bores...you've got me mixed up with Dane Paul, who loves stronger glaucoma remedies...

On the topic of guitars:

Trust me, there are Yoko-commissioned replicas.

The only decent colour pic out there.

Nick, I'm Impressed with your photos! Very Impressed Indeed!

Nick, I chat with V81 scholars from around the world. The ones that have studied every photo known and then have gone to Japan (or live in Japan!) to study V81 up close. All say it's the same guitar with no mods other than what DeMarino did to it. Pretty simple.

I can honestly say that for anyone with a strong desire to take the time to do the study you are doing with a new book and all is commendable. We all will appreciate whatever you will produce.

But let's face it, there are less than 200 of us guys on the entire planet who would even care what wood is on the back of V81!

Let's say V81 did get the back replaced. If so, then to have a historically correct 'Lennon-Sullivan' '58 325, it's needs to have a plywood back!

Whichever story anyone wants to believe in the end, V81 has a solid plywood back.

If someone wants to believe Yoko had V81 duplicated, then she had one made with a plywood back as well (I've heard all this Yoko/documented duplicating guitars stories but have yet to see anyone produce the documents).

It was extremely common for 325's of the same period of V81 to have plywood backs. No big deal, just fact.

Does it make the new C58's not as desirable? No!!! (I own two of them!)

And if you have a JetGlo C58, you can't see the back anyway. LOL

Paul, no harm done pal. Tonight my glass had Jack Daniels Single Barrel with a LaGloria Cubana.

Make mine a Monte Cristo #2, Karl!

Nick, the big close-up photo of V81 that Babiuk used in 'Beatlesgear' IMO could have been better if maybe the guitar was shot at a different angle; as it is it only shows a hint of grain.

All of the shots you posted above along with the color shot tell me that they are all the same guitar(at this point, it's the only conclusion I can draw). I think it's very important to say that the grain on the guitar looks more pronounced depending on what angle and distance the guitar is away from the point of the pic being taken. I can make my own guitars look more grainy, flamey etc..just by giving them a slight turn.

Most of the photos of the body of John's '58 325 seem to have the same grain to me, from the slides that F.C. Hall took before he owned it to all of the shots taken in Hamburg and Liverpool.

I too have seen some C58's that have grain similar to Lennon's, LOL. The top of my own C58 is pretty grainy, not very tame at all.

I think if someone could take the pickguard off of V81 and look inside, it would reveal any evidence of a replaced back.