The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

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cassius987
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by cassius987 »

Kopfjaeger wrote:Here is how I see it. If the only line of communication between Mark and Ben has been severed, how can an exchange of ideas proceed??
I guess I missed the part where they were only able to talk over Facebook. *shrug*

I hesitate to get too emotionally involved in stuff like this lest it get personal, I simply hope for the best for Rick. I wish I could be of more help. It sounds like there are a few good plans of attack available, like plugging the pickup rout and re-doing it and/or countersinking the tailpiece. McCartney's own bass has certainly seen some wear and tear and quite a few modifications so in a way this may even go with the spirit of the tribute.
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by Colonel Sanders »

cassius987 wrote:

Dane, the inserted block looks really great in that pic, quite a tight fit indeed. To be honest I'm mystified how adding a new block of wood can patch existing problems with neck angle unless it exerts a sort of force that pushes the angle back, but in my head I have trouble picturing how that would work. However I don't doubt more wood in that position can at least prevent a forward angle from starting up. But have you actually seen this modification reverse a forward angle? If so that would be great. And do you think the block of foreign wood could do any harm like stress the wing/neck/wing joints by expanding and contracting in a different pattern than the finished wood?
I think the wood block would exert some passive support. But I agree with you, unless you would remove the wings and insert a block that would actively pushes back the neck to correct an uplift, it remains a passive support (i.e. It will prevent a neck lift to happen in the future on an otherwise correct bass).

But, the point is that Dane hit the proverbial nail on the the head. RIC should rout the neck pickup cavity in a similar way shown by Dane's modification. I cannot understand why they push the routing so close to the fingerboard. It actually was not a problem when the bottom wing did "meet the neck" at the 20th fret. But it does push the enveloppe with the curent bottom wing to neck junction now being very close to the end of the fingerboard. The worst part is that the current design does nothing to promote fret accessibility (on top of being not aesthetically pleasing).

The way I see it, RIC gradually learned how to build a bass until 1972. Then they gradually forgot about it when it introduced the 4003, except for the idiot proof truss rod system they introduced which was an improvement. Yet, I personnaly grew to absolutely love the old system (when used within its limits).

To be fair, the majority of the 4003/4001c63 or v64 will never develop any problems (and the impressive number of happy owners would demonstrate that). But why not implementing some very simple changes that would make it the totality of basses being trouble free?

Oh well, enough of me being a back seat seat driver. But I find it funny that the general perception is that the 4001 cannot handle string tension when it is the 4003 that I would be careful about (and the pre-72 4001 to be fair).
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wim
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by wim »

My 1974 has the same issue, with on top of that the headstock angle that has become near zero too.
Off course this is due to the heavy roundwound string I use, I know that.
But I Always expected the hairpin rods to fail, not the neck joint.
The rods hold up very well in fact! Neck is as straight as can be.
It's up for a complete restoration soon, ind I'll try to correct it like Dane did. Seems a good solution.
Ricks ARE rather 'weak' instruments in the neck department, it's a take-it-or-leave-it thing I guess.
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cassius987
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by cassius987 »

wim wrote:My 1974 has the same issue, with on top of that the headstock angle that has become near zero too.
I'd be really surprised if the headstock angle can change much. The basses from that period didn't have much angle to start if my '76 is any sort of guide.
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Kopfjaeger
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by Kopfjaeger »

Josh,

Agreed, the only angled back headstock instruments in my arsenal are my 2011 4003 and my 2012 4004. All the rest ( pre 1996) look to be in a similar plain with the neck. I guess it would be a neutral angle. Now a positive angle like Mark Walkers RM1999 is a bad thing!

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wim
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by wim »

That's good news, one less thing to worry about.
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johnhall
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by johnhall »

cassius987 wrote:I guess I missed the part where they were only able to talk over Facebook. *shrug*
I'm glad at least one person understands the difference between "dealing with RIC" and someone's personal Facebook account.

It's also funny how our warranty service seems to be bashed here with some frequency. Few, if any, of the over 4000 people that HAVE had successful warranty service with us since 2003 (when the current database began) are ever heard from.
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by admin »

John when one considers that more than a half a million posts have been made at this forum about Rickenbacker products, the number of complaints posted with regard to customer service is very small.

I know that RIC takes each one seriously and does their best to accommodate those who have a warranty still in place. We have also seen how RIC has gone the distance for people with concerns in which the warranty has long since run out. I hear about these situations very often even though they may not appear here.

Thanks for the attention you pay to what others think about RIC instruments and for your continued willingness to discuss the situations as they arise.

RIC cannot be all things to all people. Everything has a shelf life as I am becoming more aware of with each passing day.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

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congerz83
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by congerz83 »

johnhall wrote:
cassius987 wrote:I guess I missed the part where they were only able to talk over Facebook. *shrug*
I'm glad at least one person understands the difference between "dealing with RIC" and someone's personal Facebook account.

It's also funny how our warranty service seems to be bashed here with some frequency. Few, if any, of the over 4000 people that HAVE had successful warranty service with us since 2003 (when the current database began) are ever heard from.
Mr Hall, with all due respect, all I would like answered at this point is 1) How could strings that many others use on the forum be tight enough to void a warranty? 2) Why was I not informed that my warranty was voided? 3) Why was it repaired under the warranty when it showed up to the factory with the same strings that caused the warranty to be voided? If I had voided the warranty, why fix anything? I just think I should've been made aware that my warranty had been voided. I'm not disputing the 5 year warranty. I'm not asking for money or a new instrument, I just would like these questions answered.
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by johnhall »

Looking at the service record for this instruments, the main page says:

"HIGH TENSION FLAT WOUND STRINGS INSTALLED ON INSTRUMENT. WARRANTY VOID FOR FUTURE RETURNS WITH INCORRECT STRINGS."

This note would automatically appear on the shipping label/packing list when it was returned to you on 11/21/06.

The service technician's note says:

"REPLACED BRIDGE. NECK INSPECTION DETERMINED INSTRUMENT PLAYS TO ALL FACTORY SPECIFICATIONS. HOWEVER HIGH TENSION FLAT WOUND STRINGS INSTALLED; WARRANTY IS VOID FOR FUTURE RETURNS."

This may part of the record may or may not have appeared on the packing list, at the option of the shipping department.

We gave you a break and serviced the instrument that time anyway, even though it had 155 pound plus tension strings on it. (That's based on us accepting your statement in an earlier message of this thread as to strings you used. However, I think we're going to mike all strings on returned instruments when we run into this situation so that we can make a record of it.)

Update:

Someone wryly just pointed out the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished".
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congerz83
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by congerz83 »

johnhall wrote:Looking at the service record for this instruments, the main page says:

"HIGH TENSION FLAT WOUND STRINGS INSTALLED ON INSTRUMENT. WARRANTY VOID FOR FUTURE RETURNS WITH INCORRECT STRINGS."

This note would automatically appear on the shipping label/packing list when it was returned to you on 11/21/06.

The service technician's note says:

"REPLACED BRIDGE. NECK INSPECTION DETERMINED INSTRUMENT PLAYS TO ALL FACTORY SPECIFICATIONS. HOWEVER HIGH TENSION FLAT WOUND STRINGS INSTALLED; WARRANTY IS VOID FOR FUTURE RETURNS."

This may part of the record may or may not have appeared on the packing list, at the option of the shipping department.

We gave you a break and serviced the instrument that time anyway, even though it had 155 pound plus tension strings on it. (That's based on us accepting your statement in an earlier message of this thread as to strings you used. However, I think we're going to mike all strings on returned instruments when we run into this situation so that we can make a record of it.)

Update:

Someone wryly just pointed out the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished".
This is the invoice I have on my record. It was never explained in black and white that "this warranty has been voided"

No one let me know I was being done a favor by you replacing the bridge. The communication could've been clearer. The shipping department reserves the right to not inform customers that their warranty has been voided? That it's acceptable to just state facts about the strings that were on it at the time, and to reiterate a section of the warranty? Nowhere on this slip am I specifically implicated of wrongdoing by putting flat-wounds on. There are simply notes stating facts. This is the only issue I have Mr. Hall. You're warranty is clearly understandable. It's your right to set the rules of your warranty however you see fit. However, I feel that it should be clearly explained to the customer that their warranty has been voided.
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by congerz83 »

The only string "conformance" mentioned is gauge size. Which I am under using the strings I use. There are no tension specifications.
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antonius
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by antonius »

As a matter of interest what is the tension exerted by Rickenbacker 45-55-75-105 strings? I'm sure it would be useful to know when people are considering alternatives and assessing risk...
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cassius987
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by cassius987 »

antonius wrote:As a matter of interest what is the tension exerted by Rickenbacker 45-55-75-105 strings? I'm sure it would be useful to know when people are considering alternatives and assessing risk...
If you look at D'Addario XLs of the same gauges since they are thought to be comparable, then factor for scale length, the total is probably a little over 150 lbs.
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Re: The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

Post by aceonbass »

A current 4003 neck will easily handle more than 150lbs of tension. The weak link is the transition from neck to body due to the huge neck pickup route, and I believe RIC knows this.
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