Problems With Rickenbacker 4000 Series Basses

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Dec 23, 2001 9:40 pm

From the Rickenbacker Registration Page mailbox. Quote:I have three problems with the Rickenbacker 4000-series basses.

1) The cover over the pickup nearest the bridge. If removed, will it
change the sound? How is it safely removed? If it doesn't matter, why
the term "horse shoe"? Why is it there at all?

2) The bridge has castleations between the strings which prevent the
player from accessing the bridge saddles while playing, thereby making it
impossible to mute the strings at the bridge or pluck very closely to it.
The mechanical mute must be someone's idea of 16th-century poor humor
(the plague notwithstanding).

3) The neck is impossibly tiny, especially in conjunction with the large
and important areas of the strings not accessible to the right hand
(assuming the player is right-handed) as enumerated above.

Otherwise, the Ric is a flat-out ball to play.

Ric Haworth
Memphis, TennesseeOK Mark it's over to you.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Wed Dec 26, 2001 6:11 am

The 4000 series bass is now a classic in the world of basses .To change the bass at this point would not be a good idea .

I agree that many 1950's ideas have proved outdated .The bridge on this series is one of those items.

BUT!!! to change it would give you a new bass.
The removal of the finger rest in the early 1970's was no big deal .No one seems to miss it except collectors who are missing theirs .

When I worked at the factory ,at lunch or the breaks we would sit around and discuss models and how we felt they could be improved .The Plant boss liked many of our ideas and felt that they were in fact an improvement .We made a couple of these guitars ....I have no idea what happened to them .We did not have to make new tooling at all ,just shift some things around.I wish I could download my memory and show you the three I do remember .

As to the three points specificly

1-The cover is a shielding plate at best .It really carries on the 'look' of the horshoe pickup that was discontinued for a variety of reasons in the early 1970's. READ ....make the public think the same pickup is in the bass.It is not deceiving ,rather just a look.

2-mutes were typical of ALL basses designed in the 1950's and early 1960's.Bass players do NOT use them ....but remove them .
As this is a part of the casting ....it makes it difficult to remove it .And if it was ....the cries of "FOUL" would be heard loud and clear .

3=Skinny necks ...this is a trademark for the best selling Rick instruments....why change what is selling .
This is a hard arguement to deal with .I'm sure that JH juggles it in his mind from time to time .

Personally ......I hate the skinny necks on the guitars .The string spacing does not work for me nor do I know anyone over 5'10" that thinks that it is the best! I have NEVER had anyone ask me to trim a STrat or a Les Paul neck down to the dimensions of a Rick .
I have made wide necks for players who have the reverse wish.

The bass neck I do not have trouble with ...it is a little narrower than the Fender P bass at the bridge ...but not that much .

chucksimms · Post by **chucksimms** » Wed Dec 26, 2001 9:04 am

I LOVE the skinny necks. Now, I am shorter (5'5") so that may play into things a little. My '66 335 is very easy to play and I would like to have another guitar with a similar neck. As for the 4001/4003, I agree with all of your points Mark. I think it's a classic bass. I've been tempted by others (most recently the Sting edition Fender Precision) but my goodness, after playing a Rick for so many years the Fender felt like a Louisville Slugger with frets bolted onto a kitchen table.

jblakey · Post by **jblakey** » Wed Dec 26, 2001 1:34 pm

In the hands of someone who knows how to play, and who wants and loves to play a Rick, it is a beautiful sound.. guitar or bass.
I dont think neck size is an issue for those who love a Rick for what it is... a rather unique instrument in the sea of guitars out there (classic and otherwise)... look at how Ravi Shankar can fly on a HUGE sitar neck... or 600 lb Sumo wrestler- Israel KimakaWiweho can play beautifully on a tiny Ukelele... and think of how fast Earl Scruggs can jam on a tiny banjo neck.
Yeah it took a while for me to decide that my 4001 was "IT", but I am glad I stuck with it... and glad I got a newer 4003.
They're so versatile and stand-out, people comment positively all the time about it. I love them. I am glad there is a company that does not cave to the typical design and boring look... but has the sense to stick with something that most people "in the know" know is a great guitar or bass.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:00 pm

Joel,

the late Kamakawiwa'ole or Brother IZ was a musician-not a sumo wrestler...

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:22 pm

I am always interested in the wide range of comments concerning the design and playability of guitars in general and of Rickenbacker instruments in particular. I suppose it goes without saying that we all have to adapt to the instrument that we have chosen to play. In the Rickenbacker case, many enjoy the sound so much that they continue to play an particular model until they become proficient. The model 325 is a good example. Many players find this short scale model difficult to play initially, however, after revisiting it they eventually become accustomed to the feel and size.

There has been talk before about changing the neck size of specific models (360/12) to make it more appealing to those who find the neck too narrow. While this is a reasonable request, it seems that RIC is dancing as fast as it can at present and neck size it likely far down on their list of things to do at present. Haworth's comments about the neck of the 4000 series basses is an interesting one. I am wondering Mark, if the string spacing could be adjusted much like you have done with the 12 string spacing, making better use of the available space. Do you have any thoughts about this idea?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 3:48 am

Peter: The differences I have found in the two basses I have ('72 & '79) were more in the area of the profile of the back of the neck. The 1972 has more of a square profile nad seems to have more thickness...My 1979 4001LH has a thinner, rounder neck. Playability in either case is not an issue. As far as the string spacing, my hands are an 'average' size (I guess) and I haven't experienced the problems such as the ones discussed above, although the 12-string spacing issue and Mark's remedy I totally understand. It seems more later models rather than vintage (pre-1975) models could benefit from his solution. My 68 370/12 doesn't feel as close together as the Carl Wilson......

jblakey · Post by **jblakey** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:36 am

Jared- left out the word "sized"... the point is that a man that large can play so well on a very tiny instrument... even playing beautifully while his health was plummeting and he got up to 757 lbs... and lifted onto stage by forklift. I'm not making fun of him, but just the reality of his situation shows that large hands dont NEED a big guitar. People sometimes complain about the Rick necks, but I see it as just something to get used to. Just as some complain about "no place to rest their plucking hand" on a Rick bass... after you learn to play it, it's not a problem.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:42 am

Why get used to a guitar ?

When I buy a guitar ,I want it to feel like it was made to go in my hand ...I want immediate satisfaction .....it should not have a breaking in period .

NONE of the other guitars I have EVER had needed this "get used to " time factor !

Why do Ricks?

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:45 am

If a guitar/bass did not thrill you ?

Why did you buy it ?

Do you buy clothing ,cars this way ......NO!

food .....?NO!

Think about it ......and then I want to hear you responses....and don't give me the stupid ......

"But John Lennon played one" line.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:06 am

Mark: Your approach is somewhat along the lines of "Ask not what you can do for your guitar, ask what your guitar can do for you." I agree that it makes good sense to buy an instrument to suit our needs, however, I think we need to add a shade of gray to this black and white perspective. My interpretation, perhaps off the mark, is that sometimes adjustments made can go a long way to making an instrument more playable or desirable. That way you can keep your jangle and your Rickenbacker too.

jblakey · Post by **jblakey** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:47 am

Mark - I understand your point... not long ago I was looking for a backup bass... found a very nice Guild that looked and sounded great.. and it felt natural to play, it felt easy to play. though it was too expensive for what it was.. ended up getting a 4003 which to me feels natural. However I think it is what you get used to.. think back to when you first started playing, maybe your experience is the same as it was for me.. that at first it felt awkward and is now a natural thing on whatever guitar you mainly play. And after nearly two decades on a 4001 exclusively.. I don't like many other makes.
I took lessons on an upright bass for a while.. talk about an unatural feeling that one would have to get used to! I hated it..and said forget it! But I know there are people out there who say it's soooo good and prefer that over an electric bass guitar.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 8:52 am

My first guitar was a 1968 Telecaster .I sold it because I thought it was a 'bad' guitar .I got another Tele ....It was better but had the same problem.
I asked myself ,"Why do all of these people have this guitar? Mine is out of tune ! Theirs don't seem to be a problem!"
That is when I found out about intonation .

From then on ,I had all of my guitars professionally set up and strobed.Then I asssessed whether or not they were really any good.
When I was about 25 I took this task on myself ,but I have used it as a purchasing tool.

It is a tool and must work correctly .Ottherwise it is just a trophy.I don't need trophies .ALL of my guitars 'move' me and get played .They don't sit .
NONE of them take getting used to .I also have 25 at last count and more than likely ,there will be more.

Vibe is cool ,but if the vibe outweighs the tool ....I'll take the tool.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 9:03 am

Another point ,

Leo Fender used to come into my shop and we would talk about guitars and what I liked about them and what customers were looking for .He was getting an inside look at what guitarist wanted .NOT what they told him.I was not afraid to tell Leo my point of view as long as there was a reason behind it .He appreciated my "Non butt kissing attitude".
One of the first guitars he /Dale showed me was a G&L that was more like a B.C.Rich -full of switches .
I said to him ...it is nicely done ,but you are the king of simplicity.This is too over the top and it is a fad .The fad was also waning.I was undo ing this curciutry from many guitars.

My point ....this is a forum of players with needs .We also are Fans of the guitar comapny for a variety of reasons and only want to see it get better .
I for oone do not have any kind of ill feeling towards the company ,far from it ...I just want to see them make the best that can be .

I see this concept of "getting used to it " as bizarre.

I did not have to do this with any of my Fender's,Gibson's,Danelectro's,CF Martin's,Guild's,Schecter's,Gretsch's,Taylor's,
and of course any of the guitars I have made.

I have had tolearn how to operate amps!That is another thing however.

ted_williams · Post by **ted_williams** » Thu Dec 27, 2001 10:21 am

I'm six feet tall, and I find Ric necks to be extremely comfortable. Maybe because my first "real" guitar was a Japanese-made Epiphone with similar neck dimensions. When I pick up my Strat, the neck width is just a wee bit out of my comfort zone, but I quickly "get used to it". It's also a matter of the right tool for the job. I'm not going to get a Strat sound out of my Ric 12 string any more than I'm going to get a 12 string sound out of my Strat.