Some Speakers Are Worth Listening To
Some Speakers Are Worth Listening To
This is one speaker I could listen to all day. The Celestion G12 Alnico Blue. Still made at the Celestion factory at Ipswich. If I lived nearby I would be begging for a tour.
Before this post is thrown aside as technical trivia, I consider that it is well worth pointing out that essentially all of the early British Invasion recordings used these speakers in the Vox AC-30. The AlNiCo name comes from the Aluminum-Nickel-Cobalt materials used.
Technical issues of magnetism and demagnetism aside, this is the real secret weapon of the British Invasion, after one acknowledges the tremendous talents of the musicians involved. The classic tonality of these speakers is heard in all the early Beatles' music, but one song that will remain a favourite of mine is the lead guitar work on "Hippy Hippy Shake", a 1962 Fender Stratocaster through a Vox AC-30, Alnico equipped. Yes it is most fitting that the Swinging Blue Jeans used "The Blues."
These speakers are currently made in the UK. Some maintain that this will always be the case, however, I suspect that they will one day be made in China where all the Vox amplifiers are currently made.[/size]
Before this post is thrown aside as technical trivia, I consider that it is well worth pointing out that essentially all of the early British Invasion recordings used these speakers in the Vox AC-30. The AlNiCo name comes from the Aluminum-Nickel-Cobalt materials used.
Technical issues of magnetism and demagnetism aside, this is the real secret weapon of the British Invasion, after one acknowledges the tremendous talents of the musicians involved. The classic tonality of these speakers is heard in all the early Beatles' music, but one song that will remain a favourite of mine is the lead guitar work on "Hippy Hippy Shake", a 1962 Fender Stratocaster through a Vox AC-30, Alnico equipped. Yes it is most fitting that the Swinging Blue Jeans used "The Blues."
These speakers are currently made in the UK. Some maintain that this will always be the case, however, I suspect that they will one day be made in China where all the Vox amplifiers are currently made.[/size]
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Well, I'm going to start saving a few Euros for some PHY-HP speakers made in France. Cast brass frames, huge alnico magnets, time aligned two-way co-axial design without need for any crossover network, silk insulated silver wiring, 30Hz-30kHz frequency response with 96dB efficiency, etc. Unfortunately, a 4-figure price tag for the best models. Too bad a raw 12" driver costs more than most complete combo amps. They are clean speakers, not made for distortion like Celestions, but available in 16 ohm models that work really well with low powered single ended amps. Made entirely by hand in very limited quantities and true works of art. The paper cones have a tapered thickness from throat to rim. I had studied loudspeakers for years and never heard of them until recently. They could be used in high quality PA, acoustic guitar amp, studio monitor or audiophile applications due to the efficiency and bandwidth.
High efficiency speakers are making a huge comeback among certain audiophiles and studio engineers that prefer low powered tube amps, and it mirrors the move by many guitarists back to low powered tube amps and high efficiency alnico speakers. Low efficiency speakers sounded rather dull and lifeless, whether in guitar amps or home loudspeakers. No way would a French company like PHY-HP build anything in China. They sell all they can build even with their high prices and limited dealer network. The building process is as much art as engineering and can't be readily mass produced, and unskilled sweatshop labor can't achieve necesary tolerances. The only Asian speakers that are in the same league as PHY-HP cost even more than they do anyway, so the French workers probably aren't getting rich.
High efficiency was mandatory in the early days of audio, as everything was low powered by today's standards. A 15 watt amp was really quite powerful, and a 30 watt amp was really honking.
High efficiency speakers are making a huge comeback among certain audiophiles and studio engineers that prefer low powered tube amps, and it mirrors the move by many guitarists back to low powered tube amps and high efficiency alnico speakers. Low efficiency speakers sounded rather dull and lifeless, whether in guitar amps or home loudspeakers. No way would a French company like PHY-HP build anything in China. They sell all they can build even with their high prices and limited dealer network. The building process is as much art as engineering and can't be readily mass produced, and unskilled sweatshop labor can't achieve necesary tolerances. The only Asian speakers that are in the same league as PHY-HP cost even more than they do anyway, so the French workers probably aren't getting rich.
High efficiency was mandatory in the early days of audio, as everything was low powered by today's standards. A 15 watt amp was really quite powerful, and a 30 watt amp was really honking.
Philip: The speakers to which you refer certainly sound interesting.
I am wondering whether the "queaky clean" speaker is the way to go. I guess this really depends on the sound you are attempting to achieve.
I have never read a detailed article on the relationship between tube amplifiers and speaker drivers and the reasons for the differing sounds that they produce.
It seems to me that those speakers with less efficient magnets sound better to me than the more efficient ones. Does this make any sense?
Time for you to write an article on this.
I am wondering whether the "queaky clean" speaker is the way to go. I guess this really depends on the sound you are attempting to achieve.
I have never read a detailed article on the relationship between tube amplifiers and speaker drivers and the reasons for the differing sounds that they produce.
It seems to me that those speakers with less efficient magnets sound better to me than the more efficient ones. Does this make any sense?
Time for you to write an article on this.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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I use EMINENCE BETA-10B 10" GUITAR/P.A. DRIVER 16 OHM
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-411
I put them in custom built 2x10 plywood cabs and wire them up to make an 8 ohm cabinet ... I run 2 cabs for 4x10's at 4 ohms from my Ampeg b2r ...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-411
I put them in custom built 2x10 plywood cabs and wire them up to make an 8 ohm cabinet ... I run 2 cabs for 4x10's at 4 ohms from my Ampeg b2r ...
While some bass cabs use tweeters, 12 and 15 inch speakers, why are 10 inch speakers used more often?
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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2 10" inch speakers almost equals on 15" speaker in air moving capabilities and is much quicker with transients and also has a higher frequency response, they're also more crisp sounding, you get the best of both worlds with them, lots of punch and highs because they're small and quick yet lots of bottom because of the air they can move. That was one the secret of the SVT's when they came out, one 8 X 10 cab is equal to almost 4 x 15's in a much smaller enclosure and is much tighter sounding. Now everyone copies them. The old Fender Bassman's were also 4 X 10"s but were open back. 15"s are also nice, but are slower with transients, they're nice for blues and stuff like that.
Bob is right about 10" speakers. You just use more to get equivalent surface area as the bigger speakers, and they are more "high fidelity" than larger speakers. What people forget about guitar speakers is that the entire cone is not used at high frequencies. That is the reason for the "accordion" folds in the guitar speaker cone. High fidelity speakers and bass guitar speakers will not have these folds. They have to move the entire cone in unison at high frequencies and large excursions. The center of the guitar speaker cone moves much more than the edges at big signal inputs and higher frequencies. Acoustic guitar amps will have much higher fidelity speakers and they will usually be 6" or 8" speakers such as the Celestion Vintage 8 and 6" Eminence Legend with much stiffer cones than the 12" Celestions.
I don't know of any single-coned high fidelity full range speakers over 8" in diameter. Lowther and Fostex make some of the most famous ones, and they might work in acoustic guitar amps, but they are very pricey, especially the Lowther alnico versions. Lowther uses proprietary hand formed rice paper cones with violin varnish coating that needs about 100 hours break-in to sound right, and can only handle about 15 watts. They also need to rebroken-in for a while if they sit around for several days or weeks. A 10" speaker like an Eminence B102 will go plenty high for any bass guitar work except for freaks wanting more high end extension than the guitar player in the band. I once found a website that showed a simple filter network for turning the Eminence B102 into a full range audiophile or PA speaker. It should make a good acoustic guitar speaker with that filter installed.
A lot of the old vintage JBL and E-V guitar speakers were basically PA speakers that were fairly high fidelity, but not full range. The guitar amp speaker market just isn't very big compared to the high fidelity and sound reinforcement markets. Outside of Weber VST (which is a niche market manufacturer), there aren't any "guitar" speaker manufacturers that don't sell more speakers to the high fidelity and sound reinforcement markets (at least any that I am aware of). For instance, Eminence has built drivers for Klipsch among many other loudspeaker and PA manufacturers. Celestion builds a range of highly regarded audiophile speakers. Fane is more in the pro-sound driver market than guitar amp driver market. I don't recall JBL and E-V making guitar amp drivers for quite some time. Celestion and Eminence seem to be the only biggies that even bother because they get the lion's share of the guitar driver market. Browsing Eminence's huge catalog of speakers shows that their main interest is NOT guitar drivers, and the proprietary designs made specifically for individual manufacturers isn't even listed. In fact, many bass guitarists use Eminence's PA drivers instead of bass guitar specific drivers. Almost any good high fidelity woofer that can handle high power is a candidate for bass guitar cab duty. The bugaboo is the price.......high fidelity woofers typically cost too much for most musicians to shell out the necessary coin. Some new companies like Accugroove and Phil Jones Bass are heading that way anyway.
Remember that Leo Fender did NOT buy "guitar" speakers in his early days. He shopped around and bought cheap general purpose speakers that sounded right and were fairly reliable. Alnico was cheap and the standard magnet material back then. It has no advantage in bass speakers. Neodymium is probably better there. Leo sprayed his early electric guitars with automotive paints because the paint and spray equipment were readily available at reasonable prices, not because of any sound quality concerns. A guitar speaker to him was anything that sounded good to his customers that they could readily afford. My new Music123 catalog listed the Celestion Alnico Blue at $475 with a street price of $310. At that price, I don't think it would meet Leo's criteria for a "guitar" speaker that he would consider using, unless his customers indicated a BIG willingness to pay for it. It's too much for me to pay for. A VMPS Megawoofer uses a woven carbon fiber cone and costs much less than the "Blue". Brian Cheney of VMPS quotes the prices of speaker components on his website (he is not well liked by many people in high end audio for his candor), Paper cones are dirt cheap. Quite frankly, "the price is the product" in much of the high end audio industry. I think Celestion is taking a pricing clue from wire bandits and others in the audio industry, and lack of competition allows them to get away with it.
I don't know of any single-coned high fidelity full range speakers over 8" in diameter. Lowther and Fostex make some of the most famous ones, and they might work in acoustic guitar amps, but they are very pricey, especially the Lowther alnico versions. Lowther uses proprietary hand formed rice paper cones with violin varnish coating that needs about 100 hours break-in to sound right, and can only handle about 15 watts. They also need to rebroken-in for a while if they sit around for several days or weeks. A 10" speaker like an Eminence B102 will go plenty high for any bass guitar work except for freaks wanting more high end extension than the guitar player in the band. I once found a website that showed a simple filter network for turning the Eminence B102 into a full range audiophile or PA speaker. It should make a good acoustic guitar speaker with that filter installed.
A lot of the old vintage JBL and E-V guitar speakers were basically PA speakers that were fairly high fidelity, but not full range. The guitar amp speaker market just isn't very big compared to the high fidelity and sound reinforcement markets. Outside of Weber VST (which is a niche market manufacturer), there aren't any "guitar" speaker manufacturers that don't sell more speakers to the high fidelity and sound reinforcement markets (at least any that I am aware of). For instance, Eminence has built drivers for Klipsch among many other loudspeaker and PA manufacturers. Celestion builds a range of highly regarded audiophile speakers. Fane is more in the pro-sound driver market than guitar amp driver market. I don't recall JBL and E-V making guitar amp drivers for quite some time. Celestion and Eminence seem to be the only biggies that even bother because they get the lion's share of the guitar driver market. Browsing Eminence's huge catalog of speakers shows that their main interest is NOT guitar drivers, and the proprietary designs made specifically for individual manufacturers isn't even listed. In fact, many bass guitarists use Eminence's PA drivers instead of bass guitar specific drivers. Almost any good high fidelity woofer that can handle high power is a candidate for bass guitar cab duty. The bugaboo is the price.......high fidelity woofers typically cost too much for most musicians to shell out the necessary coin. Some new companies like Accugroove and Phil Jones Bass are heading that way anyway.
Remember that Leo Fender did NOT buy "guitar" speakers in his early days. He shopped around and bought cheap general purpose speakers that sounded right and were fairly reliable. Alnico was cheap and the standard magnet material back then. It has no advantage in bass speakers. Neodymium is probably better there. Leo sprayed his early electric guitars with automotive paints because the paint and spray equipment were readily available at reasonable prices, not because of any sound quality concerns. A guitar speaker to him was anything that sounded good to his customers that they could readily afford. My new Music123 catalog listed the Celestion Alnico Blue at $475 with a street price of $310. At that price, I don't think it would meet Leo's criteria for a "guitar" speaker that he would consider using, unless his customers indicated a BIG willingness to pay for it. It's too much for me to pay for. A VMPS Megawoofer uses a woven carbon fiber cone and costs much less than the "Blue". Brian Cheney of VMPS quotes the prices of speaker components on his website (he is not well liked by many people in high end audio for his candor), Paper cones are dirt cheap. Quite frankly, "the price is the product" in much of the high end audio industry. I think Celestion is taking a pricing clue from wire bandits and others in the audio industry, and lack of competition allows them to get away with it.
Philco: Thanks for this great primer on speakers. New Celestion Blue Alnico speakers are available at Avatar for $244 US. By no means cheap but a very long way from the ridiculous list of $475.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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