How do I stop sticky strings syndrome without silicone?

strangebrew · Post by **strangebrew** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 2:29 pm

I just bought a 1999 (hasn't been played) 360/12v64 and I love it. But I'm used to being able to spray silicone on my strings to make them easy to slide around. After reading many warnings on this site and the manual, I know its a no no on the RIC. I read the forum, but it only addressed the problem for the natural finished fretboard, (it said something about some tung oil). It doesn't matter how many times I wash my hands or wipe the fretboard, (infact washing hands just removes the natural oils and makes it less slippery). So what can I use, that won't hurt the guitar? I would really appreciate the info, because its cramping my style. Thanks. PS this is my first posting.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 5:02 am

I think that you have a need here and then misunderstand one concept .

That is ; Silicone should NOT be used on any neck , by any maker, with or without finish ,that has small or large frets , any year ,or any time of day ! PERIOD!

Silicone never goes away ......period .
Why should you not use this 'on a guitar'?

Silicone permeates the finish and causes future problems with adhesion .It soaks around frets and enters the fretboard , expansion and contraction, trussrod adjustments and playing cause the silicone to work it's way into the wood .It causes loose frets, it causes a re-fret to not work ! I have fought silicone re-frets where the frets just did not want to seat them selves and kept popping up! Why ? Silicone is slippery and it never goes away!

FINGER-EASE IS EVIL!!!!! Period .

Noow I will say this , I do have a can of it in my shop .What do I do with it ?

Off the guitar , sometimes I use it to lube allen screws , truss rod nuts , tremelo bearings, 5 way Fender switches , but NEVER on the Guitar.

This stuff also enters your skin .....what do you think it does to you ? Have you been listening to anything about silicone breast implants?

corey · Post by **corey** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 5:19 am

Bruce,

Personally, I find that washing my hands right before playing and wiping down the ENTIRE guitar with a polish cloth afterwards does the trick nicely. I've used both flat and round strings, and the flats are a bit easier (and less noisy) to play on when sliding between chords or a lick or whatever.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 5:27 am

Now to address your PH balance and the stickyness of your hands .

I have a really good friend that I do not allow him to play any of my guitars ...his ph eats strings .He can kill a set in 5 minutes of play with a fresh set and then they feel like they have crud all over them .I HAVE seen this with other players as well.

The first thing to ask your self is ; "What do I eat ?" Think about this ....I noticed in San Francisco , when I had a shop on Columbus Ave in the late 1970's , that most of the Chinese players liked one or two types of strings , White guys did not like these and felt that they did not last as long .I started to assess 'groups' and type of strings lasted longer .This led to my opinion of "you are what you eat" and what the acid in your sweat does to the strings is a direct result from that .

If you drink alcohol and get hammered/drunk , the following day you off gas a stench from it .Food ? I dare say it does the same.
So here is my suggestion.

1- find out what strings do not last for you .This will take buying different types (not brands and not gauges) to figure this out.You should make a loose chart of your findings as you will be surprised.
2- get some baby powder , and some denatured alcohol.
The alcohol is for cleaning the strings when you stop playing.Use papper towel or go to Kentucky Fried Chicken and get some hand cleaners there.
Wipe the strings down .DON'T get alcohol on the finish , as some finishes re-act to the alcohol and that could be a new problem.
Another cleaner would be -NAPTHA or VM&P Thinner, both of these can be had at any paint store.They are the main ingredient in 'Ronson' lighter fluid.
This is the least toxic of all the solvents found in a paint store and will not harm any finish on any guitar made after 1945 (unless it has a shellac finish , an NO commercial maker uses shellac ....it is a poor coating ).
The build up of crud (sweat and skin flakes can be cleaned with either of those solvents and then you may need to polish the fretboard if it has a clear coating.I use automotive products(3M finnese-it it is a white thick liquid) to polish Fender,Ibanez,Music Man ,Rickenbacker fretboards.
On bare fretboards (rosewoods and ebony) I use Johnson and Johnson's paste wax (this comes in a yellow tin and contains NO silicone) on the whole fretboard. After that is aplied I wipe NEV'R DULL magic wadding over the frets and rub it all out ........this feels great! not the rubbing , the fretboard !

NEV'R DULL is a tarnish remover and polishes the frets .A little goes a long way .

I am not trying to make you feel bad , but what you have been doing is typical and NO one in a music store (generally speaking ) will have much sympathy or a real answer ....they are guessing most of the time .They do NOT do any research.

Try this and get back to me.

The baby powder is for your hands , try that ...I know plenty of guys who use it and it helps out .

strangebrew · Post by **strangebrew** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 6:03 am

thanks for all the advice. But I'd like to add this. I have noticed that if my fingers are oily from just natural body oil, that the string "feel" is of course better. So is natural body oil safe for the fretboard at least while playing (I wipe strings and fretboard after)? And if so, where can I get a "can" of it. Actually I'm not joking. Is there an oil similar to natural body oil that would not be bad for the fretboard as long as I wiped fretboard afterward? Keeping in mind that body oil is going to get on fretboard no matter what! So why not add a little more for playing ease?

grsnovi · Post by **grsnovi** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 7:58 am

Have you tried ELIXIR strings?

I have yet to try a set of their electrics (and don't know if they have an electric set for a twelve string) but they are coated and pretty slippery.

I like them on my acoustic.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:18 am

Adding oil to the fretboard is sort of silly , it does not go away .Lemon oil is a scent with naptha as the vehicle .
It does evaporate .

NEV'R Dull can be bought at Ace Hardwares , wood stove outlets,some times Home Depot, sometimes even grocery stores have it!
Johnson and Johnson (of Racine Wisc. USA) paste Wax comes in a yellow tin and can be bought at almost any grocery store or hardware store in the USA.
Body oil is not ever an issue .Unless you are a teenager and 'Clearasil' is an important part of you life.
If you MUST lube the fretboard , do it only twice a year.Once when you turn on the furnace, and second when you turn off the furnace .Meaning ...October-the start of Fall and April-the start of Spring (at least here in the northern hemisphere).

Gary ....I have never tried Elixir electric strings , it might be an interesting idea for Bruce to contact then and see about getting a 'sample' set .

grsnovi · Post by **grsnovi** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:09 am

The whole idea behind ELIXIR's is the fact that they are "micro-coated" and therefore less prone to deteriorate due to the acids in your sweat.

However, I'm pretty sure that they are only coating the wound strings (I don't think that the high B and E are coated).

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:17 am

Right your are Gary. Elixir states on their siteQuote:Do plain steel strings have POLYWEB Coating?
No. Our market research indicates that most musicians report the wound strings have a shorter musical life than plain steel strings due to contamination. The POLYWEB Coating extends the musical life of the wound strings to better match plain steel string musical life. The coating of the plain steel string did not appear to offer substantial benefit during product development.

strangebrew · Post by **strangebrew** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:24 am

OK. First, you should know that I would never put the oil directly onto the fingerboard. I would only put a very very small amount onto the strings themselves. Of course a minute amount would get onto the fingerboard. So, those oils you mentioned, lemon (which contains naptha isn't that bad for the fingerboard?) and NEV'R Dull would not permanently dull or ruin the high gloss RIC fingerboard? If so, they are an option. Also, if "body oil is never a problem" as you said, then how about mink oil? Also, I wonder what those ELIXER strings that Gary mentioned, use as a lubricant. Speaking of lubricants, don't the lubricants that they use on some prophylactics have to be silicone free, maybe thats the stuff I should use, (we'll call that P oil). Ha Ha. But maybe it would work. Don't laugh for the rest of the afternoon, just for an hour or so. I really need to solve this, and I'm hoping a minute amount of one of these oils ON THE STRINGS ONLY will help. So what about those 4 oils: mink, lemon, P oil, or NEV'R Dull. Which is the safest. Don't want to ruin anything.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:20 am

Bruce, I think Corey is onto a good thing. it certainly wouldn't hurt to have clean hands before you start to play and after you're done just wipe the guitar down with your polishing cloth, strings as well. IMO your strings will feel better to you if you keep them wiped down. Our guitar player does this (he is pretty particular) and he stays happy. On a Rickenbacker, the fretboard should be easy to wipe down since it's finished. As you play you may just need to take a break and 'wipe off'...
Good Luck.

grsnovi · Post by **grsnovi** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:38 am

Bruce -

ELIXIR's are coated with plastic and they are really slick (as in slippery). They almost feel like flat wounds.

I've always oiled (natural) fingerboards with boiled linseed oil when they seem to want it but I would never "oil" a RIC fretboard.

strangebrew · Post by **strangebrew** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:00 am

Ok, as I said, I always wash my hands before, and clean the guitar afterwards. You should know that I would NEVER NEVER put the oil directly onto the fingerboard. I would only put a very very small amount onto the strings themselves. Of course a minute amount would get onto the fingerboard. So, those oils you mentioned, lemon (which contains naptha isn't that bad for the fingerboard?) and NEV'R Dull would not permanently dull or ruin the high gloss RIC fingerboard? If so, they are an option. Also, if "body oil is never a problem" as you said, then how about mink oil? Speaking of lubricants, don't the lubricants that they use on some prophylactics have to be silicone free, maybe thats the stuff I should use, (we'll call that P oil). Ha Ha. But maybe it would work. Don't laugh for the rest of the afternoon, just for an hour or so. I really need to solve this, and I'm hoping a minute amount of one of these oils ON THE STRINGS ONLY will help. So what about those 4 oils: mink, lemon, P oil, or NEV'R Dull. Which is the safest. Don't want to ruin anything.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:46 am

There used to be stuff called 'Fast Fret' that was on a pre-soaked swab--all you did was run it on the strings and wipe off the excess; theoretically only the strings were treated. I don't know whether it had silicone in it or not, but you may want to check it out with your local music store. It came in a little gold can.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 12:36 pm

It sounds to my like you are a classic case of ..."I'm hooked on Finger -Ease and can't get off it.

I think that you should try anything else.

The Wax will shine the fretboard , the NEV'R DULL shines the frets, and something like a compression wound or 1/2 round string will end finger noise.

If the problem is , you have hands that eat strings, crud the fretboard .Then all the cleaning tips will help.

If you hardly play , under 5 hours a week and the noise looks are the issue ....then all the original tips should solve this.

If you gig and play or jam with others and you eat strings from sweat , then the alcohol will clean the crud from the strings , and washing your hands will help.

"You are what you eat" phrase comes back to my mind and that is something to consider .Are you a red meat and potaoes kind of guy? Do you eat lots of fast foods (burgers) , they are the cause of an inbalance to the ph of your body .That may be the real answer .
I love red meat , but eat less of it with age (I am 47) and that helped me.

More ideas with time ........