Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Been with my guitarist for 8 years now, in and out of several bands. The singer joined up with us about a year and a half ago-his only singing experience before this was Karaoke. The drummer has been with us for a little over a year-he's really good, had some band experience about 10 years ago...

We're (IMHO) pretty good, and starting to get enough bookings to keep us busy. Still there are lurking issues. I'd like to practice more frequently, but I do understand that the singer and drummer have young families, and the drummer has to travel a bit for his day job. I'd like also to play more blues/rock tunes (Zep, Aerosmith), but that'll never happen with this singer...so we end up learning a lot of bar cover standards that are kind of boring to play. Oh well, treating it like I'm a hired gun, it's good experience, the guitarist is starting to put all the music theory I've been trying to beat into his head into practice.

The current issue revolves around this dive bar we've had about 5 gigs at. Seems that the last few times we've been there, the singer spouts off about "this is the last time we're playing here"...but after the gig while settling up he jumps at booking us again. The place has it's own sound system/PA guy...the stage monitors suck, the PA guy is sometimes a crab (but last few times has lightened up). We have been jerked around by management regarding our starting times and when they start charging a cover, but they've never jerked us about pay.

So the last time we're there, while settling up, the drummer, guitarist and myself look at each other when the manager asks about booking us next. Before we can even look at the singer he's diving into their book and commits us to July 15th...this in late April.

Soon afterwards, we're booked for June 18th. We were in negotiations at the time to play a wedding July 9th. Soon we find out about a gig June 11th, that will likely get us booked for a very well paying gig (over $1K) in late August. The guitarist (who is generally pretty anal about things) starts worrying about the amount of time we're getting together to rehearse (we're learning about 20 new tunes for the wedding and planning to play a lot of them at the June gigs), sends out an e-mail "Mark Your Calendars"...

Now the singer is saying "we shouldn't do" the gig on 7/15...his friends "don't like" the bar, most of the "following" will be seeing us at the June 11th party, the management jerks us around...he's the one who jumped at the booking after saying he didn't want to play there again! WTF???

Anyway, I'm against just ditching the gig-I like to honor my commitments. As the singer is often saying "I don't know how long I'm going to be doing this", maybe he doesn't give a hoot about reputation, but I want to continue playing in this area and don't want to get associated with unreliable rep. If it were a case that someone had to go on a business trip, OK, I'd understand. But just to say "we're getting too busy and this place is a drag"...well that reeks to me.

To top it off, this singer just won't show up to rehearsal if the drummer isn't there. As if he doesn't need the practice. Our next gig we have a tentative set list with 32 tunes, and 14 will be new...so the guitarist and I try our best last night (and probably tomorrow night) to get our **** down, and we will have ONE full rehearsal before playing the gig. Wonderful.

Anyway, besides venting, my main question is this: Am I unreasonable to think that ditching the 7/15 gig is a bad precedent? Or should I just STFU and hope we keep getting booked and that if we do cancel it'll never be an issue?

Thanks for the cyber ear, guys...

Bad idea to cancel gigs unless you have a really good reason and this one doesn't sound good to me, also sounds like time for a new singer.

Agreed, I never like to cancel gigs, we had one where our singer quit on us the DAY OF the gig, between myself, the guitar player and a singer of an old band we used to be in, we got it done (quite well, I might add...).
It sounds like your singer is not as "into it" as he should be. Sounds like a band meeting is in order, best not to let those feelings go un-vented too long, resentment builds up and then things get out of hand.

My vote is to honor your commitments.

I've found it really hard to find a singer who's head is on straight. The last singer I worked with and the one with the best voice by far was/is really flaky. Your post reminded me of him. We used to call him "One Cell" after the number of functioning brain cells (that we estimated) remained in his head.

If the guy doesn't want to play there, then he shouldn't book the place. Why can't you play all the gigs? Unless I got the dates wrong it doesn't look like you're double-booked.

Having been thru all that ***** many,many times over, here are my thoughts.
You definitely should not cancel a gig you have accepted. It's not a simple thing to put a band together, get the members to practice, then actually land a gig(that pays!!). Even if you don't plan to ever play that club again the owner/management may be involved in other clubs and by burning this one bridge you may find you've screwed yourself out of other clubs as well. And don't forget, all these club owners and managers know each other and talk shop(ie: beer prices, waitresses, bands)a lot, and word will get around quick that yours is a band to avoid dealing with.
Now, as far as the singer; Lead Singer Mentality is a serious disorder. I'd call a band meeting and sit him down and have a long talk with him. First, what is his commitment to the band? Is it long-term? Does everyone share the same level of commitment? A bit of soul-searching and actually talking about goals can really help a band, and it can save people's time from being wasted.
Depending on his answers a search for a new singer may be in order. Sounds like you and he differ over material anyway.
And if you do cancel the gig, try to find a band to fill in for you before telling the club you can't/won't play. It's something that's done all the time and the club will appreciate it and probably won't hold it against you.
Good Luck

We're running into the same problem with our rhythm (no vowels - ain't it cool) guitarist/lead singer. He does have a lot on his plate - work and young child commitments - and the band is just not one of his priorities. We have done one show w/o him and much like Steve - we did really well. However, since we are a "family" band - meaning everyone is related to someone else - we haven't had that "sit down" talk with him yet. Then again, we play maybe once, twice a month so our committments are not as great as yours Ed.

LSM strikes every three and a half minutes somewhere, it is a very serious disorder with no known cure.
One cell, hahah!
Our lead singer/guitarist loves photos and posing, at this time we play a steady gig every Sunday from 6 - 10 and a photographer drives up from Providence RI (45-60 minutes) every week sits on the floor right in front of the band and tkaes pictures all night and the singer poses, gyrates, does his thing all night non-stop. It's getting ridiculous, he's standing on top of tables having seizures (looks like anyway)etc.
she's a little looney too, she does this for nothing, she drove or flew a couple of thousand miles a few months ago to take pictures of Hank william's grandson who does half a HW tribute and plays punk the other set. she did not get paid for this either. I do not like this particular gig, haha!

I've quoted Sartre before and I'll quote him again: "Hell is other people."

especially when they are lead singers.

I had the opposite happen ... we were booked at a bar and then the bar double booked 2 bands so we got bumped ... no problem we didn't really like the rat hole bar anyway ... but then they called us on a Saturday morning and ask us to play on that Saturday evening ... we said no ...

We can only hope to be so lucky, Jeff.

A bar double booked on our date before also and we never played that dive again. Apparently the weather broke sooner than expected and they wanted more of a beach band vibe.

If you really don't want to do the show just explain the situation to the bar manager/owner and tell them you'll honor your commitment but would appreciate if they could fill the night with another band. As long as there is plenty of notice and you make it clear that you wouldn't just leave him hanging it shouldn't be a problem. My band has taken last minute gigs because of someone else cancelling and I would imagine another band will be willing to fill in for your band as well.

Luckily my band is smooth sailing at this point. For a few years there was some tension between members (myself included) due to different band goals, lack of communication and some ego issues. I quit twice....once because it wasn't fun anymore and again because I had no time due to a new career. Now things are great....a new drummer made things fresh again and there are no attitude/ego issues to deal with.......everyone is just having fun and we are more popular than ever (still almost completely unknown of course). If there are problems within the band put them on the table and if they don't get sorted move on. I have found that it is just not worth it if it is a struggle dealing with each other. Our band has grown leaps since it became fun to play again....

Lots of great posts here! I will just second everything Ronn posted... that is exactly what I was going to write. Good luck!

Got to agree...and I appreciate the advice/tales...

Yeah, it's tough to get a band together that can be productive. That's why I don't want to just tell the singer to beat it. And we're not really a band with a "leader" per se...and we've jointly invested in equipment...and we seem to be getting gigs, some paying pretty well.

Not that anything I've read is news...I too have had some very bad band experiences, and falky singers seem to be the norm.

BTW, I shared some of the early posts with the guitarist...he liked "One Cell" too!

Man, that stuff brings back memories for me! I quit a band about two years ago, and I've been doing stuff in my studio exclusively lately, except for a gig or two with other bands who were short a bassplayer or keyboardist. I am really heartened by the person above who mentioned that their band is currently "smooth sailing" because lately I've been having the itch to get back into a band, but I kept thinking about the blowups from some of the old bands! You gotta have good communication or things will build up, someone else said it, but it sure is true! I know what you mean about a band with no leader, because that's the only kind I'll join anymore, since I've done the primadonna route before...