Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hi, everyone.
I think 650 and 4004 is very wonderful and attractive guitars and basses. I think they have brand-new modern charm of RIC that traditional models like 4003 or 360 or 660 do not have. Apparently, they have ability that increases RIC's new fan. But....
I think they are not selling well, in U.S.A and Japan and other countries. I think an advertisement about their charm is not enough. Has RIC wanted to really increase the sales of them? What meaning is there for RIC in the existence of 650 and 4004? They are equal to traditional models like 4003 and 660? Or, they are flagship models that bear Rick's future? How do you think about it?
Thank you.

As a banker, the business side of things fascinates me in the music industry. It would be interesting to know Ric's mission statement to get insight onto what its business approach is. From my standpoint, Ric owner and guitar enthusiast) this company has developed a strong niche position that is successful : distinctive sound, excellent craftmanship, loyal customers and the luck to have a solid association with the world's most famous rock band : the Beatles (guitar & bass). The "newer" instruments are sophisticated and competitively priced and go beyond Ric's characteristic playing audience. This provides an interesting new source of business, but keeps things focused none the less. Even heavy advertising is going to be difficult to get people and dealers to abandon Strats or Les Paul's if those are the instruments that the end-user is dreaming of. That being said, an informed enthusiast might become more in tuned with the inherant qualities of Ric to try the more modern ones (source word of mouth, stores, etc). Today, I'd rather pay $1000 on a Ric 650 than a lowend LP because I know that my gear is going to last and sound well, but not cost 3 x as much.
Given the production delays, the commitment to quality (witness the C series) and the refusal to outsource, there may be no incentive to increase sales because it is already difficult to produce existing demand in a manner that is up to Ric's standards.
The changes on the Roger Meisel designed Capri series are small since their late 50's designs - ric got it generally right the first time. That is a tremendous advantage for us today. Look what Gibson, Fender & Gretsch have to do to give musicians that 50's feel : custom shop, relics, agings, japanese construction ....
The flagship guitars of most guitar lines today are the stars that they designed well before the end of the sixties and that is being generous; ric is no exception.
In terms of advertising, we must remember who is paying for it : dealers or the company. This forum is better than any add in GP because we might actually buy more than one Ric instrument.
This company is still family held, so, the business is run in a very different way than if it were publically held or had specific investor return issues to answer for.
I don't mind how many they sell so long as Ric continues to succeed with its business model, to produce excellent instruments and does not loose sight of its core values and business. See this company hawking lunch boxes and mugs like Fender would be a real downer.
This company works for musicians and enthusiasts who have figured out a good thing; that's fine by me !

"This company is still family held, so, the business is run in a very different way than if it were publically held or had specific investor return issues to answer for."

"...there may be no incentive to increase sales because it is already difficult to produce existing demand in a manner that is up to Ric's standards."

"I don't mind how many they sell so long as Ric continues to succeed with its business model, to produce excellent instruments and does not loose sight of its core values and business."

As far as I'm concern, those statements pretty much sums it up.

R.C Bengston wrote , in part "...there may be no incentive to increase sales because it is already difficult to produce existing demand in a manner that is up to Ric's standards."

Why churn out Rics en masse if the company objectives are reached and producing more would harm the resale value.. ? It ssems to me that used rics, even relatively late models, are more collectable than any other brand, Certainaly that is the case here

Jophn

John, remember I didn't write that. Give credit for the quote to David in the earlier post.

I'm as diehard a Ric fan as anyone out there. Having said that, I think it is HIGHLY ironic that Rickenbacker's well-earned & well-deserved success from it's past has trapped it, and perhaps even hurt it at a certain level. The fact is that models like the traditional 4000 series basses and 300 series guitars have made it very difficult for Rickenbacker to introduce new line-ups. The older Ric enthusiasts are, for the most part, suspicious of any drastic alterations to the classic models we've grown up with. Therefore, Rickenbacker comes out with more modern models like the 650 and 4004C. Us longtime diehards tend to be somewhat leery of them, but the younger crowd has it's own suspicions. They don't trust that Rickenbacker has come out with something that isn't tied up in it's hallowed past. "NOT your grandpa's jingle-jangle Rickenbacker!", so the magazine advertisement might say.

I'll be honest and admit that I really didn't care for the 4004C when I first learned about it. It took quite awhile for me to warm up to this model, but now I have one and I love it. Certainly not every 4001/3 diehard is gonna like the 4004C, but that's okay and to be expected. However, a younger player not very familiar with Rickenbacker might be enticed to try the 4004 and come to love it. Afterwards, this young player might be encouraged to take a look at the classic 4003 series, and end up liking that one also. Hey!, everyone wins!

I think most of us here at the forum would be pretty disappointed if Rickenbacker guitars & basses became massively popular. I mean, we belong to a pretty select club, do we not? I think it's possible for Rickenbacker to expand somewhat in regard to new models and reasonable changes & improvements WITHOUT giving up that commitment to high quality and design for which we love this brand of guitar and bass so much. It would be an understatement to say that the folks at Rickenbacker are as aware of their past as anyone. Commonsense would dictate they never lose sight of that, and for this reason I think it's safe to say that us old-time diehards don't have to worry whenever Ric comes out with something that's a bit off the path of tried-and-true.

I own two traditional models (the 360 6 and 12 cousins) but I have nothing against the newer models. Don't get me wrong - I love that jingle jangle tone, but that isn't all that Rickenbacker means to me. At some point, I will probably get a Ric accostic, or 380 Laguna or a 650 series guitar. First and foremost, Rickenbacker is attention to detail and quality of product.

I just replaced the standard knobs on my 360/12 with the 650 series chrome ones, so I've got the best of both worlds - and ALL Ric.

I was sworn to 330's and 360's until I ordered the 650. This is the guitar I was looking for!!! And like Nyanmage, I feel that Ric should advertise more on those new models. I can compare my 650 with a Les Paul easily and with a lot more variety of sound. And all the guys I play with have tried my guitar, and so far, are still dumbfounded since they were expecting something in the line of my 330! One of them is thinking seriously about getting a Sierra with a wang bar!
And what gets me is that I had to question all over to find out about that guitar since there was no way that I could try one in store. In a way I was taking a chance on wether I was going to like it after I ordered it...Not really fun at that price...but it turned out great and I won't change it for nothing in the world. And it's a darn good price for a guitar of such quality!
So I don't know what is Ric's policy about their production, but I think that they should talk more about their new models and they should send them at least in all the big city's music stores! They should be proud...they're beautiful models and everybody should have a chance to try them. Becoming bigger doesn't mean a slack in quality if you are careful...and I think that Ric should get right in the market, with the same quality, against those big names that have lost a lot of the quality on their production but are still asking for astonishing prices!! GO RIC GO !!! Dan

Hey Jeff(Ricnvolved),
I am shopping for a 4004- none of the stores in my
area carry this model. What tone(s)can this bass produce? Could you give me an idea ex. does it sound like an active bass: ie. EMG or Bartolini kind of tone? Can a 4003 be pulled out?
Thanks
jR

Thank you, everybody! I thank for giving your interesting opinions.

By the way do we(?) advertise this new charm to markets through what way? I have a good idea. Please do not laugh.

For instance...
I do not have interest in using 4004 by Chris Squire. (Please do not misunderstand me. I like him. He is one of my hero.) I have not already felt freshness to this combination. On the contrary, it will give an impression as in the past to many people. They will think "Wow, brand-new RIC 4004CII-5st also is RIC after all". It is the situation of the worst.

Well...
I think that 4004CII-5st will be used by Marcus Miller.(Do not laugh. But...Oops! I have laughed myself.)

Thank you.
(I apologize about my strange English)

Where I live, like mentioned above, Rics are hard to find. And if one is found, it's usually a 360 or 360/12. It would be nice to see a wall of various models ready to be played. All I usually see are the Fender and Gibson walls.

Is there anyone here who lives near a music retailer who stocks a wide variety of Ric guitars and basses?

Here are three that are only a few mouse clicks from anyone with a computer:

http://www.the-music-connection.com/ric.htm
http://www.bassnw.com/contents.htm
http://www.voxshowroom.com/northcoast/
http://members.aol.com/rhoadsmusi/ric.html
http://www.pickofthericks.com/

Roger, good luck with these links.

Garry

Jeff Russo-- I can give you a better accounting of my 4004C-I when Mark Arnquist is done with it. He is currently working to convert it to fretless, and just generally bringing it up to tip-top condition. When I got the bass a few months ago, it had barely been played; still had the original roundwound strings on it. This bass seems to have a very good tone, but I'm reserving judgement until it comes back. I'm skeptical that you could get a convincing active tone from this bass, but I'm hardly qualified to say for sure. I don't like an active tone, so it's not like I'm trying to get one from the 4004C anyway. Perhaps with a good set of aggressive roundwounds and the right amp you could get the tone you're after with this bass.

Also, I'm not sure how close you can get to the tone of a 4003. Once again, with the right amp, and the e.q. settings tweaked out, it might be possible. However, I already have a 4003, so trying to get that particular tone isn't what I'm looking to do with the 4004C. Maybe Mark can be coaxed to weigh in with his opinion on your questions when he's completed work on the bass.

I really liked the bass when I got it, and I'm sure to like it even more when it comes back. It's an easy playing bass and feels great. From an aesthetic viewpoint, I much prefer the original series I styling over the current one, although I'm sure there's no difference in tone. I'm anxious to know Mark's opinion whenever he's ready to tell us here at the forum.

Thank you for the info Jeff, please post your thoughts after you recieve your fretless.
Jeff

Hi.
The RIC is not producing 12strings-model of 650series and 380. Why is there not 12strings-model of 650series and 380series? Are you wear about this point for what opinion?

Nyanmage