Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

i have read comments on the "rick" forum postings referring to special 12-string nuts cut to optimize useable spacing of strings (john hall tips) and have also read numerous bantering on the "right" string to use on the 12 strings ... i have intonation problems with my low E and A string groupings ( as well as some 'buzz' )....
please forward some advice ... i have a 1979 model 450/12 i want to recondition ..
( serial number SI 4495)
i would like to purchase one of the "modified" nuts mentioned, as well as make sure i get the correct strings to put on the guitar, as well as possibly replacing my tuners with ones you would recommend as being the "right" ones ... to try and optimize playing and intonation ...
* where can i purchase the above mentioned items
* tips on "nut" installation ,, better to let an experienced luthier do it ??? suggestions ?
* tuners ??
* strings ??
* bridge work ??
thank you for your time and advice ..

To my knowledge , these are NOT a John Hall mentioned item .

However "I" have mentioned it as have several peoples that "I" have done this for .

"I" have the customers send me there guitars and then I perform the work .

If you lived in the southern hemisphere or in Europe ..I might give you the math on how to do this ...However ...as I do have my own business and knowing the science is only half of the puzzle (the art is the other half) I can only say this ; older Ricks are inconsistant is dimensions ...and due to this it is difficult to PRE make any nut for them .At least with any accuracy .
Why ?

The radius is different from guitar to guitar ,
The frets are rounded differently , at the edges , from guitar to guitar.
And the wear and height of the frets is different from guitar to guitar .

what is the approximate price for parts and workmanship for this nut replacement and necesaary evaluations for my 450/12 ??
(i'm sorry i attributed this modification to john hall )

There are two different modifications that I perform,

the First is not as radical ...On both of these I highly reccommend installing the Rick 12 saddle bridge .For those of you that want to remain out of tune ...this mod is NOT for you.

Step 1- new nut .This is either black phenolic or creme micarta .I space the outside strings .065 from the edge of the neck .
The low E and A pairs are spaced at .085 apart and the rest of the pairs are set at either .075 or .80 depending on fret end round over and wear of the frets and the overall width of the fretboard at the nut.
Step 2- check the truss rod bar ...is is worn are the rods curled under , are the threads in poor shape , and has the fretboard poped at the nut area before Fix any or all of this .
Step 3- Check bridge location. If there is NO length compensation , move the base away from the neck 5/32"
Step 4- if the customer wants to have the 12 saddle bridge installed , that gets notched at .045 from the center of each pair of strings .
The String slots will follow a 10" (or in the case of an older guitar ...what ever radius is at the last fret or some where between 8" and 10" ...the old guitars vary greatly At least the pre 1984 models.)
Step 5 - dress the frets if needed
Step 6 - check the tuners and see if any of the mounting screw are NOT holding ...many of the older guitars now have loose screws
Step 7- install the new bridge , restring ,adjust the truss rods , fine tune the saddle notches , fine tune the nut slots , intonate/Strobe tune and play -checking that all playing positions positions are okay .
Step 8- check the Rick-O-Sound jacks ,they are known to have switching problems
Step 9- reshape the nameplate to Vintage spec , this allows more clearance for the strings to the slot tuners.

What does this cost ? as of May 2002 in USA money $250.00 plus parts and shipping.

The second modification is everything from the above posting , plus refretting and respraying the fretboard .

What does this additional process cost?
There are several versions .
On a Crushed inlay neck this must be done with great care .The crushed inlay material is fragile with age ...I remove the unwanted fretboard dust from the edges of the pieces after I remove the frets and remove the finish from the fretboard.
I give the crushed material a wash of C.A. glue to hold it together and to fill the pores /gaps between the pieces.This really makes this material look fabulous !!!
I then refret .I refret OVER the top of the binding , notching the tang of the fret so the frets extend over the binding.I do NOT cut the binding at all.The fret wire is filed to get a perfectly level edge so that when installed , there is no possibility of the string slipping off the edge of the fretbaord and getting caught under the frets (see older Martin D-35's for that feature).

I polish the frets with white Scotch Brite , and then re-spray the fretboard .
The Finish is removed from the frets and then they are leveled and polished along with the finish after the finish gets a final wetsanding .

For this ... as of May 2002 - $325.00

Ther Next variation on this process is the re-planing of the fretboard along with the refretting.
If the fretboard has the crushed inlays , then there is binding and the height of that binding must be considered.
The depth of the crushed inlays is also a question .These are NOT replaceable .
I take extreme care in handling /dealing with them .

If the radius of the fretboard is way out of whack ...and this would be discussed as well as photographic proof of it shown by email to the owner , then I would need to have this discussed before any work is performed.

If indeed , the reradiusing is to be done (and this makes everything play nicer ...then that cost along with the fretting and respraying is ...as of May 2002 $385.00

If any binding needs to be replaced , that is an additional cost of $50 per side .


Now I know that there is this question ..."Why does this all cost so much?"

Because it takes a lot of time.And I realize that the owner wants it to be top notch.

If you wanted a cheap job ....you would get out a Steak knife and doit yourself.

Disclaimer (There are NO steak knives in my shop anywhere , nor will there ever be one).

thanks for the info .. what are the approximate costs for the new nut and the Rick 12 saddle bridge ... i would be interested in the first modificatoin group only at this point ...
* parts cost estimate ??
* how do i ship the guitar to you ?? ..
( ups/ fed ex ? )
* can you ship guitars in the standard Ric cases / taped shut ?? safely ??
* what is your current turnaround time for modification / group 1 ??
* how much does shipping cost to/from ohio ??
* what strings would you be putting on ?
* i currently have the Kluson Deluxe tuners ..
were those the originals used in 1979.. do you have a problem working with those tuners ?..

the guitar is in good shape for its age ; i just want to get the best playability/sound/intonation possible from it with reasonable investment...
* if i decide to go through with the work on my guitar, how do i make arrangements for work scheduling ?..

Two things should be mentioned here:
1) The 450/12 comes with a compensated bridge, not the regular adjustable one.
2) Only dots for inlays on this guitar.

ps: The Kluson Deluxe tuners are probably the stock tuners.

Thanks John for that model clarrification .

I assumed that any work done on a dot would be really easy to deal with and the inlays are always "THE" question ... that is why I answered the question that way .

I am aware that this particular model came with the "compensated" six string (notched for 12 strings) saddle ... most of them sag by now .

It is possible to install the bridge with 12 saddles on the guitar .HOWEVER .... you must choose how to do this .

1- cut the original guard , and install the bridge .Using the original 'tailpiece' .

2- make a replacement guard (I would use LEXAN/polycarbonate ...it is less prone to breaking ...it iis nasty stuff cutting it and specail measures/care must be taken when doing this.
Then install the bridge .This would allow you to return to "STOCK" should you choose to .It would not change the value of the guitar.

3- Do any portion of the mentioned AND make a 12 hole anchor piece insteed of the ganged up 6 saddle version .This could be a simple bar with 12 notches in it then screwed into the cavity .The bridge could be mounted into 4 hex screws at the location of the feet .This would be more depth than the plate used on the 360 guitars!