Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

The Searchers were one of the most influential and musically talented groups to come out of England. Yet, except for "Needles and Pins", and "Love Potion #9",on local Oldies stations they are largely forgotten. The question "Why" deserves examination. I'd like to hear some opinions. Allow some observations:

First, they had a second string record label over here-Kapp, and almost no publicity apparatus pushing them. Second, they didn't look British, at least as the rest of them looked. Regular haircuts, regular suits, no gimmicky uniforms. Third, they were rather remote, not a lot of interaction with the audience. Fourth, lousy management. They got booked on Ed Sullivan ONCE, and never did Shindig til well into '65. Did Hullabaloo once. Wound up on Steve Allen & Johnny Carson. Never played big shows, except as part of a package. Never HEADLINED a British Invasion Revival show. Six:No airplay for the SIRE stuff. Comments?

This is a very well chosen topic John. You have certainly covered the bases with regard to record label and management. I concur that they lacked the promotion required to get the exposure that they needed early on. Chris Curtis has, as recently as 1997, commented on the poor relationship they had with their manager Tito Burns.

I believe that there are a couple additional factors that kept them back. To begin, they were not a cohesive musical unit and there was much internal strife among them which resulted in Jackson and they Curtis leaving. This, in part, may have contributed to their more conservative style. These group conflict may have interfered with their focus as was evident during their later Australian tour. In addition, their lack of original compositions really hurt them as far as I can see. This was a time when originality was key and their tendency to do covers was, in the balance, not well received.

Assuming it's true they appeared only once on Ed Sullivan, What tunes would they have played?
Obviously, Needles and Pins, but did they do more than 1 song, and could it have been Love Potion # 9?I seem to recall seeing them more than once on Sullivan.I know I heard them do "Don't Throw
Your Love Away" as well.I watched Sullivan more than most of those other shows, though I saw them as well.

They did 2 songs on Ed Sullivan. Opened the show with "Needles and Pins".Closed it wi/ "Ain't that Just Like Me", which started off as the B side of Needles, and was then split off by Kapp as a second single, w/ "Saturday Night Out" replacing it on Needles' B side. Kapp didn't release "Love Potion #9 until the spring of '65. They had at least two or three Searchers' albums to mix and match into the 1st two released here: "Meet the Searchers", and "This is Us", which had Tony on the cover, while Frank was on the tour.

John: I note that you have put "failed" in quotation marks and I think that failure has to be discussed in the relative sense here. It is hard to think of "Needles and Pins", "Love Potion Number 9" and "When You Walk In The Room" as failures. These songs are in the repetoire of most 60s bands and in the temporal lobes of countless Baby Boomers.

Chris Curtis revealed much about the intense relationship that he had with The Searchers and Tito Burns in his 1997 interview with Spencer Leigh. I consider this discussion with Leigh to be representative of the "tip of the iceberg" of tension and mistrust that was present among group members and management. It is hard to imagine how they managed to do as well as they did under the circumstances. Chris comments Quote:I was recording Paul and Barry Ryan for their stepfather, Harold Davidson, who is Sinatra's best mate, so you do what you're told. Graham Nash had given me the song and I liked the title, the answer could either be happy or sad, yes or no. John McNally asked me what I was working on and I played him the song. He went behind my back to the publisher and got a copy for himself. They recorded a very icky version: the vocal wasn't that good and it sounds like there's a rat running across the snare drum.

Paul and Barry Ryan, who were lovely people, did it much better. I was recording a Welsh group called Ten Feet and they backed them on that. I told them that I wanted a drum sound that sounded like it was coming from the back of the hall to the front, and it worked so I was well pleased. Because of the Searchers' version, the publisher asked me to hold back on Paul and Barry Ryan, so I went to Harold Davidson and said "this is a No. 1". He said, "We'll have to move fast. I'll get them on Ready, Steady Go! this Friday and on such and such next Tuesday", and he did what he said he'd do. Tito Burns, who handled the Searchers, said to me, "You *******, you *******", and I said, "Excuse me, one *******'s enough around here". He said, "You've ruined the Searchers". I said, "I've had nothing to do with them, they had something to do with me. They've tried to be smart arses and it hasn't worked."

Peter,

I put "failed" in quotes because I don't consider them failures from the creative view, merely from the commercial one, and because I was trying to fit the topic into a short sentence. Clearly (if only from the remakes of "Needles and Pins", and "When You Walk in the Room"), they've been a major influence, discounting of course, the guitar chord ripoff on "I'll Feel a Whole Beter" (Byrds)and the major expropriation, without credit or acknowledgement of their "sound" by the Byrds, Petty, you name 'em. It is a major source of aggido to me that this band has gotten neither the recognition, acknowledgement, nor honor they deserve. If they had, they might still be John, Mike , Tony/ Frank and Chris.(but I doubt it.

These guys invented folk rock, a whole school of guitar playing, perfected the Liverpool sound, and took into the modern age (the Sire Sessions), and nobody gives them credit for it.

Still, they had chances to break it open in the States, and the bottom line is- they didn't do it- against Herman's Hermits, the DC 5, and a host of lesser bands. In that limited sense, they failed.More's the pity.

_WHAT SONG IS CHRIS TALKING ABOUT IN THE QUOTE ?

WHAT PERIOD , WHAT YEAR DID THIS TAKE PLACE

IN ? IS THIS AFTER CHRIS LEFT THE SEARCHERS ?

??????????????????????????????????????????????????

Chris is referring to "Have You Ever Loved Somebody" that was, of course, recorded by The Searchers and this was indeed after he had left the group because Johnny Blunt was the drummer. The song was released as a single in October 1966 so I would say that Chris was speaking of late summer 1966. Perhaps Tim will be able to pinpoint it better.

McGuinn and Gene Clark Both cited the Searchers
for influencing the Byrds sound, early in their career.Tomcat, get me some quotes here....

Dr. wrote:

Tomcat, get me some quotes here....

"Seek, and ye shall find."

"Are we not men? We are searchers!"

_A+ TOMCAT . YOU GO TO THE HEAD OF THE CLASS .

WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS MYSELF .

Perfect, Terry, if not overkill[hey, "overkill is My middle name,ask Arnquist..].

Peter,

Having read the responses, I think another problem may have been over-reliance on, and surrender of authority to, Chris Curtis. He was the last of the original four in, yet he determined the musical direction of the band, and to a degree the personnel.

While each of the Beatles had a public persona/personality, and each engaged the media and fans, the Searchers had only one public voice- Curtis. The other guys always seemed strangely detached from the proceedings. That did two things, in my view: Made Mike,John, and Tony?Frank largely faceless unknowns (here in the States), and made the Searchers vulnerable if Curtis left. (as it did on the musical direction front). Another contributing factor?

_THE ROLLING STONES HAVE DONE QUITE WELL BEING

DOMINATED BY MICK JAGGER AND KIETH RICHARDS . THE

OTHER MEMBERS ARE PUPPY DOGS . I DON'T THINK THE

POPULARITY OF THE SEARCHERS WAS HURT BY THE

DOMINENCE OF CHRIS CURTIS .