Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Well, let me first say, that I am the one who grabbed the 650C Montezuma Brown off Chris's Pick of the Ricks website.

Having said that, and it's been a little over a month since the purchase and having played it exclusively at clubs the past four weeks, I wanted to post some observations.

By trade (guitar picking that is) I have always been a Stratocaster player. I also have at some point in time have owned eight (8) Rickenbackers. I've also owned Gibsons in the past, Les Pauls. But I have always come back to playing the Stratocasters. (I'm pretty much a solid body kinda guitar player)

Now, I dearly love Rickenbackers; always have. But my complaint is that the Ricks were never versatile enough, thus my journey back to Stratocasters all the time. I understand that a guitar is a guitar is a guitar.

But boys, you can't get in the zone unless you got that tone.

Now, the 650 with its Rick humbuckers has astounded me. That damn thing ain't a Rick, it's an aberration. Which leads me to ask, why doesn't Rickenbacker make guitars that LOOK like Ricks but sound like Les Pauls, Stratocasters etc.

Would I buy a solidbody 350 with Humbuckers and the bridge mounted like a Strat or like the current 650? Boy you bet.

I understand the Beatle sound, Byrds, Tom Petty etc. (All of which I'm a very big fan) But that sound only carries you so far in todays world. I would like to see Rickenbacker diversify their sound even more. The 650 is on the right track.

Okay, you can pile on now.

Hi David. My argument would be that if you want a Strat sound, then buy a Strat. If you want a Les Paul sound, then buy a Les Paul. But if you want a Rickenbacker sound, then there is thankfully only one gtr to get. The look isn't the only thing, it's the sound & IMO, Strats & LP's are great, but there is NOTHING in the world like THAT Rickenbacker sound.

The great thing about Rics is their ability to help let you make your own sound, all be it Rickenbacker!

Please don't take this as critisicm, it's not...just my thoughts.

David: Just to be clear, are you saying you like the Model 650?

Should you be disillusioned, and want to go back to a Fender, I can round one up to trade you for the 650C.

Sounds like you are enjoying it though, which I am thinking is a beneath the surface of your post.

Hey Tony, thanks for the input. I pretty much anticipated the "...if you want a Les Paul sound buy a Les Paul" etc. argument. And I agree, the Rickenbacker sound is a great sound. You'll get no arguments here.

But I guess what I'm driving at is more than that. Rickenbackers do have a distinct sound no doubt. But, Rickenbacker (and I say this holding my breath) does not make a all encompassing multi-purpose guitar in regards to tonality for so many different types of music.

I'm sorry, I do love Ricks (I currently own three) but depending on the gig, depends on which guitar I'll bring. If it's standards and say.. beach music, oldies, I'll bring the Rick, no problem.

But if it's blues or Southern Rock, then the Strats and Les Pauls come out. And that's my point, I can play ANYTHING in regards to tonality with a Stratocaster and have found myself unable to do that with the Rickenbacker.

I guess I'm just wondrin' if Rick is ever going to face up to that in the future. It seems to me that with the 650, that there may be a change.

And I'll say this, I highly recommend the 650 to anyone. For my money, it's sounds far more versatile than say a 350V63.

Oh and one more thing, as far as looks go, THE LOOK is everything about Rickenbacker. There are no guitars on the planet that are more captivating to look at.

David: Surely what makes the guitar world interesting is the different sounds associated with different instruments as you have pointed out.

I am not sure who makes and all encompassing multi-purpose guitar. The Strat is a versatile instrument but it does, of course, have its tonal limitations as well.

You are spot on about the look.

David,

I am a big Ric fan. My 350JG though has a Ric HB on it in the bridge position. It howls and growls as well as my Les Paul. I do understand your sentiment. If I could only take one guitar to a gig in the past it would have to be one of my Strats. I would probably feel comfortable now just taking my 350. Like you I love the look. Nothing else looks like a Ric. But in terms a knowing that you are always going to get your sound in a room, until my 350 came along I would have taken a Strat for the job.

Peter is right no one guitar does it all but on the other hand a Strat does seem to fill 90% of what most peoples needs are. I am glad that I discovered my 350 and more importantly how the 5th knob works. Now as I said I would feel very comfortable taking my Ric to a gig as my only guitar for the night.

When it comes to 12 strings and basses all others are so far behind Ric they look like....well you know the rest of that story.

By the way I play blues for the most part. So you can take my comments in that context.

David, I knew my argument was pretty obvious, but you have taken it in the light with which it was offered. I play rock & my 330's/360's out did my 2nd guitarists Les Paul & SG (now a three piece). I notice Dwight Yoakams guitarist was playing country on a 360 & there are even pics of Stevie Ray Vaughan with a Ric.

I have always argued that Rickenbackers are much more versatile than they are given credit for. Brian is spot on with the 350, especially the 350V63. A hi-gain in the bridge & the toasters in the neck/middle & I challange any Strat to be more versatile!!!!

"If it's standards and say.. beach music, oldies, I'll bring the Rick, no problem."

This is the exact statement that I just don't understand & yet I see it time & time again. Rics are NOT just good for 'old' music. They are as capable as any gtr of producing contemporary, world class sound, to meet the highest standard of modern recording. I use exclusively Rickenbacker & yet I don't consider my album to be 'old' sounding in any way at all, in fact quite the contrary.

You've got me going here David. If you would like, please email me off line & I will gladly send you a copy of my album 'Stupidly Cool' & hopefully prove that Rics are capable of MUCH more than standards & oldies! Once again, don't take this as critisicm, this is a good healthy debate....

If I may provide a 'bass-centric' spin on things...

I own five very different basses. A Jazz, a Stingray 5, a BB1200, an MC924 Musician and my awesome Rickenbacker 4001C64S. They were all chosen for their differences in tonality. A pleasant bonus is the different look they each have.

Now, your average, everyday, run-of-the-mill audience member may not pick up on the subtle tonal differences in a live setting (I do, and that's important to me), but I guarantee that at some level they notice the difference in style, or 'look'. And when I find myself in studio, that's when the tonal shadings available to me come fully into 'play'. Those shadings even lead me to play differently as well, which may or may not be a good thing depending on the track!

In the end, I feel that the more individualized or stylized a voicing each particular instrument may posess just adds to the fun of trying to identify that "latest" or "coolest" sound on that "new CD by Whatziznaym... which in turn, leads to the fun of tracking one of those instruments down for our very own collection/arsenal!

Well fellas, I knew I was gonna touch off a few emotions. (This is a great debate...) So to kinda address everyone......

I've owned a 350V63 and dearly loved it, especially for the esthetics of it. (Plus the Lennon look is the most fantastic look in all of guitar history) But, I could never get it to bring about the sound that I wanted. Even matching different amps to it. (I've always been a big proponent of matching the right guitar to the right amp)

Now, maybe modifications would bring it around, I don't know. I'm not much on modding guitars. Lack of know how and out right don't want to be bothered with it, reckon I tend to leave things well enough alone.

Rick 12 strings, basses etc. No one can touch Rickenbacker.

As far as the 650, you're right Pete, I really do enjoy the guitar. And, to me, it is an almost un-Rick like guitar in regards to tone. It seems to almost do it all. I guess I would like to see Rickenbacker move in that direction.

I'm not talking about over hauling their entire inventory. That's insane, I would never get rid of any of their guitars, ever. But, I would explore new tones as far as something truly competing with a Stratocaster.

I had a 320 for years that was almost Strat like in tone, but the neck killed me. So after 20 some odd years I finally let it go.

Ricks are unique to themselves, always have been, always will be. And that's fine. But a mainstream sound with THE LOOK of a Rick wouldn't be bad either.

By the way, I'm taking the 650 out again this weekend.

Brian: Do you recall what color leads you used to wire your humbucker and what the KOhm rating was of this pickup? Did you try splitting the coil?

Weirdly in my (albeit limited) experiance of stratocasters, I found them totally NOT versatile!

I could never get a nice overdriven sound out of them unless it was drowned in effects (a la Pink Floyd say). I liked some of the clean tones but I'm not really into playing Madonna's "Holiday" and stuff like that....

Ah Robert. Not all Strats have that problem. Some like yours have low output because (a) the relation of the pickup to string height has not been set up correctly of (b) the output of the pickups is in the low range or (c) you have not matched your guitar to a suitable amp.

Peter, even though I build, re-build and modify Strats from parts as you probably know and therefore I am quite comfortable doing anything relative to set up, re-wiring etc, I have never had my 350 apart. I bought her second hand. She came to me as she is with this bonus High Gain/High Gain/Humbucker configuration. I suspect that it was a factory job much like Suzanna Hoffs guitar. If not whoever did it knew what they were doing.

The only work I did on my 350 was to set up the intonation because when I got her she was so far out of adjustment she was unplayable. I suspect that is why I got such a good deal on this old girl.

I use my 350 with a Peavey 212 Stereo Chorus amp. I use the same basic settings as I use for my Strats. While the sound is different to a Strat it is somewhere between the sound produced by my Les Paul and my favorite Custom Strat that I built from parts. To demonstrate the 350's versatility I can play The Wind Cries Mary to a tee and I can also play early Cream material such as Crossroads or Strange Brew. It is a very nice guitar that I bought sight unseen from a guy in New York. By the way except for a bit of chorus and reverb built into the amp I play my guitars raw for the most part. I only use effects for effect.

Maybe I got lucky but I don't think so. I used to have a Rickenbacker 6 made in the very early 60's. I played blues, rock and southern rock with that baby through a Vox AC 30. So if I got lucky it happened twice.

I should add Peter that when I change strings next I'll take a look at the installation for you and let you know what wiring configuration was used.

You might be right Brian. I twasn't my strat though, I borrowed it from a friend for a while and decided I would not be buying one! I played it through a marshall.

Sound aside, I just really don't like the look of strats. Too....obvious. Or something