Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I just ordered a (new) copy of: "The Byrds: Timeless Flight Revisited: The Sequel" the original being out of print, this was apparently updated in '98

I've been listening to a lot of Byrdsong over the last weeks - from the new Preflyte set to the 1st two discs of the boxed set. Over the weekend, I cranked up the 360/12 (and I'm thinking about adding a 370/12 to the pile).

At lunch I was pondering the fact that Roger was really the only constant but (for my money) the vocal harmonies that Roger, Crosby and Gene did early on were bigger than the 12 string - and often, Roger's voice was NOT the primary voice.

Then as the band thinned out and morphed, it changed - so by the time you hit Younger and Notorious, you were into a different era/style/vibe. The addition of Clarence on guitar REALLY added something.

While Roger and the various incarnations of the Byrds probably continued to play Roger songs from the "cannon" over the years they also changed. Listen to the live side of Untitled (which raises a question, recently I've seen a new live cd that the rest of you probably have - is it any good?).

The only incarnation of the Byrds that I ever saw was the McGuinn, White, Batin and Parsons variation and they sounded just like the live Untitled set.

I've subsequently seen Roger solo and he did do Byrdsong, but he did other stuff too.

I guess the point I'm wandering around to is that there are a lot of Crosby songs and songs more identified with Gene's vocal that haven't been performed in 35 years.

I just got Timeless Flight Revisited about a month ago, and I think it's a pretty interesting book. It gives you an idea of how things were back then. I don't know what else to add, but you'll know when you get it.

I think the shared vocal blend that McGuinn, Clark, and Crosby developed was great. As was the sound of McGuinn, Crosby and Hillman. I guess I like all their stuff. I like the 1973 reunion album too, it helps complete the "Full Circle".

The reunion LP was never re-released on CD was it?

I also liked that - I think its too bad that those tracks were not included in the box set.

Long ago, I had (may still have) a thin book on the Byrds by Bud Scoppa (I think) but this one looks "better". It sounds like the author (Rogan) was less than objective and it also sounds like both Crosby and Hillman may have some quibbles with what is apparently (primarily) a McGuinn guided project.

Last week or so, I was looking at CD's and I noticed that the McGuinn, Clark and Hillman release is available on CD (although after looking at it, there wasn't anything there that I thought I'd listen to more than once more, so I didn't bother).

Yikes - it appears that The Byrds Asylum was released but is available here only as an import (which I just ordered, along with the "Live in London" thing with McGuinn, Hillman and Parsons (Gene I assume) double disc set).

I've got the 1973 Reunion album on vinyl, but I transferred it to disc for my own listening pleasure. There aren't any bonus tracks on the Asylum CD release. It's a good album though, and is often overlooked.

I think Rogan's book tries to be as honest as possible regarding all of the Byrds. There's stuff about all of them that is pretty revealing. I think Rogan did a darn fine job. I don't think there will ever be a better book on the Byrds than this (of course, Rogan will probably keep updating it and making it better).

Why Crosby might have some problems with the book? That's obvious! Crosby has had his ups and downs (especially in the 1980s). There are stories of Crosby smoking cocaine through his freebase pipe and being a total base-head FIEND! I mean would you like to open up a book and read the following sad-but-true stories about yourself:

Said Rogan about Crosby's addiction, "I witnessed the extent of his dependency over a couple of days when the freebase pipe was seldom away from his lips. 'Please don't mention the drugs', he pleaded, 'it's bad enough as it is'." (page 406)

Well, too late! We've already mentioned them!
Check Out this totally SCANDALOUS junk:

"Even his driving technique was carefully adapted to facilitate his freebase usage; astonished passangers would watch in open-mouthed astonishment as Crosby skilfully steered the car with his knees while gluttonously toking from the pipe that refused to leave his hands." (page 409)

"During bouts of exhaustion, Crosby would occasionally lose control of his propane torch and accidently burn holes in his clothing or set alight hotel mattresses.... he could no longer sleep or even eat without an accompanying blast from his ever-present pipe." (page 408-409)

"On commercial air flights he would surreptitiously light up his propane torch and somehow dodge the normally vigilant eyes of suspicious stewards." (page 409)

"Crosby's flagrant self-abuse became national news on 23 March 1982 when he suffered a potentially deadly seizure at the wheel of his car. He was extremely lucky to have escaped with his life. Upon regaining consciousness, he discovered to his horror that his car had careered into a freeway divider. A police search uncovered a veritable Pandora's box of narcotics: cocaine, quaaludes and an assortment of drug paraphernalia. To make matters worse, Crosby was carrying a loaded colt .45. When asked why he carried a gun, the still bemused singer offered the wry reply: "John Lennon". That comment was a revelation in itself. Here was an artiste without a record contract whose self-esteem was still high enough to believe that he might attract a superstar assassin. Hadn't the Byrds once been called "America's Answer To The Beatles"? (page 409)

"Fifteen days later, he was appearing at Cardi's night-club in Dallas, Texas, when police officers arrived supposedly for "a routine investigation for liquor violations". Upon entering Crosby's dressing room, they discovered the singer frantically attempting to conceal his freebasing equipment. "Don't do this to me!" Crosby moaned in horror as they searched his bag. Its contents included a gun, a Bunsen burner and a quarter gram of cocaine. He was duly arrested..." (page 409)

"The following summer, Crosby found himself back in court in Texas and newspapers reported that he consistently fell asleep and snored during the proceedings." (page 410)

"On 5 August 1983, Crosby was sentenced to five years' imprisonment for illegal possession of cocaine and a further three years to run concurrently for firearm offences. An appeal was immediately lodged and the singer was freed on $8,000 bond." (page 411)

"Throughout the nightmarish period, Crosby somehow managed to fulfill his professional obligations. Like a chronic alcoholic who miraculously gets to work every morning... In order to supplement his income, Crosby was reduced to selling drugs as a sideline. His backing musicians rapidly resigned themselves to the extent of his addiction and even armed themselves with personal fire extinguishers. Meanwhile, their pyrogenous boss continued to leave a trail of burn stains in his wake, torching hotel suites and damaging furnishings whenever exhaustion loosened the freebase pipe from his hands." (page 411)

"Although Crosby had been ordered to undergo drug counselling, his efforts were either lacklustre or unsuccessful. For a brief period, he enrolled at Ross General Hospital, Marin County, but the treatment was not to his liking. He was later admitted to Marin General Hospital for kidney stones but mid-way through treatment, he was caught trying to smuggle heroin into the hospital and reprimanded by his doctor. Incensed, Crosby ripped an intravenous tube from his arm and marched out of the hospital leaving a trail of blood behind him." (page 411)

"Crosby's carelessness seemed certain to prove his undoing. In October 1984, he was arrested in Ross, California, for reckless driving on a motorcycle. A dip into his bag brought forth a rubber tube, Bunsen burner, pipe, and, inevitably, more cocaine. For good measure there was another offensive weapon, this time a dagger. Attorneys disputed the legality of this latest search and Crosby escaped with a fine for reckless driving. Back in Texas, Knox Fitzpatrick had intensified his attempt to enmesh the beleagured singer, but Judge McDowell, realizing the extent of Crosby's addiction, took a firm but compassionate stance and ordered the defendent to enter a closed institution to undergo drug rehabilitation." (page 412)

"Faced with a choice between imprisonment or hospitalization, Crosby decided to enroll at the Fair Oaks Hospital in New Jersey... in January 1985. Hostility and denial characterized Crosby's mood during the early days of treatment... He was also in considerable physical pain. His ankles resembled balloons, his mouth was full of abscesses and he could not breathe properly while asleep. In spite of his handicaps he made slow progress and might have pulled through but for the psychological dependence on drugs. During the sixth week of his treatment, while walking in the hospital grounds, Crosby abruptly made a break for the hospital walls, climbed over and sped off with a friend in a waiting car, after which he was taken to a hotel in Manhattan for a long overdue freebasing session. Within 48 hours he was arrested in Greenwich Village on another charge of cocaine possession and the usual tired litany of accompanying offences." (page 412-413)

"Realizing the seriousness of his predicament, Crosby volunteered to return to hospital but his conciliatory gesture had come too late. Unable to pay the $15,000 bond, he was held at the spine-chilling Tombs of Riker's Island before returning to Texas for another trial. His defence attorney made a fresh appeal for hospitalization but Judge McDowell finally denied bond and despatched Crosby to Lew Sterrett County prison. For four months, the erring singer suffered gruesome withdrawal symptoms, spending most of his time in solitary confinement. He also had to suffer the indignity of prison guards playfully teasing him with such quips as 'Hey, rock star, come here and mop up this floor.' At one point, he was given a job of trust working in the prison cafeteria, but was reprimanded after stealing some bacon and stripped of his privileges. More isolated than ever, he spent most of his nights crying to sleep. Whenever possible, he phoned his business manager, Jack Casanova, and begged him to arrange his release at any cost. Eventually, Graham Nash and CS&N manager Bill Siddons produced the $15,000 to secure his release. David assured them of his intentions to stay straight but, less than two days later, he was freebasing again." (page 413)

"Nevertheless, his celebrity outlaw status continued to attract ghoulish multitudes eager to witness what might prove the last performance of Crosby, Stills & Nash. The trio broke the house attendance record at Concord Pavilion where people waved banners proclaiming, 'David, We Love You'. By this time, Crosby had erected his own prison in the form of a backstage van surrounded by his own prison officers - burly minders whose job was to keep him relatively straight. The freebasing still went on, however. During a gig in Norfolk, Virginia, Crosby was overcome by an attack of nausea and walked off stage mid-way through the show. While he recuperated in the rest room, an angry Stills entered and poured a jug of water over David's head. As Nash succintly observed after the show: 'It's hard to sing and vomit at the same time.' Even his best friends had run short of excuses and explanations for David's behaviour. Graham Nash, once loyal almost to a fault, now seemed convinced that his partner was doomed and informed the press: 'David will eventually die, it's only a question of when.'" (page 413-414)

"The Grim Reaper showed a strange reluctance to ensnare Crosby but the police authorities had no such reservations. On 23 October 1985, David suffered a flash of deja vu when he drove into a fence on the road to Mount Temalpais. On this occassion, he remained conscious and unwisely decided to flee the scene. A car chase ensued and Crosby was arrested for hit-and-run driving. Police again found a gun in his possession, plus the usual assortment of drug paraphernalia. In spite of his constant string of arrests, Crosby again received bail at $5,000, but his latest transgression extinguished any remaining hopes he might have harboured of avoiding a jail sentence." (page 414)

"Judge Patrick McDowell wearily scheduled another hearing in Dallas but this time Crosby failed to appear. Fearing almost certain imprisonment, he decided to become a fugitive. Accompanied by Jan Dance, he fled in search of an impossible redemption. Rather fancifully he convinced himself that he could escape justice by sailing into the sunset on his boat, the Mayan. The plot bore a striking resemblance to his classic fantasy tale 'Wooden Ships'. Now reality was imitating art. The elaborate get-away was ultimately thwarted by the state of the Mayan, which had fallen into disrepair following years of neglect and was no longer seaworthy. The wreck of the Mayan appeared to symbolize Crosby's own defeat. Penniless and barefoot, he pathetically attempted to avoid capture by shaving off his moustache and purchasing cheap wigs to disguise his identity. At this point, he was still consuming a quarter ounce of cocaine and a half gram of heroin per day, but now his supply lines were cut." (page 414)

"In despair with nowhere left to go, Crosby abandoned the futile struggle for freedom and turned himself in at the FBI's office at West Palm Beach, Florida. One week later, he was taken to Lew Sterrett Justice Center, then moved to the Government Center and placed in solitary. His parting words to the assembled journalists were a brave 'Wish me luck, huh'. For the remainder of the year cold turkey, made worse by his poor physical condition, prompted further dark rumours about his longevity. Dallas County's assistant District Attorney was already speaking of him in the past tense: 'They say he was a great man with a great deal of talent. I guess the only word I can use to describe him is 'ruined'." (page 414-415)

"Crosby had once equated prison with death in his own mind but now it offered blessed release. Rather than destroying him, his tenure in jail provided salvation. Initially, he suffered severe withdrawal pangs which seemed insurmountable but gradually, almost imperceptibly, his health improved. He was transferred to Huntsville Prison and assigned a job in the prison mattress factory as if to atone for all the beds he had torched during a decade of addiction. As the months passed, Crosby slowly adapted to life behind bars and even began writing new songs, as well as appearing in the prison band. His progress was duly noted and, one year on, his friends began campaigning for his release. The Texas Board of Parole was similarly impressed and, on 8 August 1986, Crosby was freed. The following year, the Texas Supreme Court concluded that the invasion of his dressing room at Cardi's night-club in Dallas had been illegal and his conviction was retrospectively overturned." (page 415)

"Crosby emerged from custody overweight, drug free and reformed." (page 415)

After reading all that crazy stuff, it's AMAZING that he's still alive today! He had a liver transplant at one point in 1994, but recovered from that too. Now, he probably makes close to a million Bucks a show! Well, I'm sure he made Plenty of money the night I saw him with CSN&Y in 2000. His ability to bounce back is wild! His performances with CSN&Y are still great! Because of this, I say that David Crosby is probably one of the Most Resilient rock stars of all time!

I think everyone is amazed that Crosby lived - then to go through the whole kidney (or was it liver) transplant thing?

He was an amazing solo performer before he tanked. I saw him a number of times by himself (and with Nash and with those other two guys: S & Y).

However, he does seem to have a rather arrogant head trip about what people should or shouldn't think about paying for tickets to see/hear him and his ideas on women and guns have always eluded me - but you gotta love the guy for his talent (and his great pirate portrayal in HOOK...

Today was go crazy Byrds day: ordered Rogan's book, those two cd's then tonight I ran out and picked up a 370/12 Mapleglo (to keep my 360/12v64 company). Tomorrow I'll give Henry a call and order my 12 saddle bridge for the critter.

Some "news" this afternoon off the alt.Byrds chatroom:
Someone had heard a McGuinn interview pretty recently, and had asked Roger if he kept in touch with Croz. Roger said he'd gotten an e-mail from Croz, in which David told Roger he'd bought the Byrds name Back from the ---holes who've unscrupulously had it the last few years,and had been running a Bogus Byrds band around.If true, this could be good news, IF Roger lightens up and agrees to work at all with David and Chris again.
I'm not holding my breath, but if true, a great source of irritation to the surviving Byrds has
been removed. More news at 11:00...

I thought the three of them with Jorgenson were great.

I always thought that the three of them owned the name and that was why they were performing sporadically every now and again?

Jorgenson is Perfect with them.The Byrds haven't owned the name for a Long time. Mike Clarke got with some sleazy promoters and lawyers in the 80s and got ahold of the name for himself and ran around wih a bogus Byrds till he died, then They kept doing it till at least pretty recently,as far as I know. I have not kept real close tabs on this thing.

Well, that's cool that Crosby *may have bought the name "Byrds" back from those bogus bungholes who were using it scandalously. I hope this new development is true. It would be great if the remaining Byrds reunited and did a tour! May not happen immediately (if ever), but hopefully their name is now secured by one of its remaining rightful owners.

As a huge Byrds fan ,
I for one recommend we Not get whipped into a "Wow, now we're gonna finally have a Byrds reunion" frenzy.That's just setting ourselves up for disappointment.I emailed Chris about this, so we will see if and what he has to say about it all.

One of the problems with reunions is that all of us have "moved on" - the members of the original band(s) too. Our tastes have changed. If you look at the solo careers of Roger, David and Chris, you won't see much that could be considered "Byrdsong" - even with the addition of the other two.

When "Turn, Turn, Turn" first came out, I wasn't listening to a lot of symphonic recordings and I had never heard any Nordic Roots music.

I'm content to see/hear Roger, David and Chris on the occasional music awards show or other special event.

Roger still plays a lot of Byrd songs live, and his skills on the 12-string are still darn sharp. Crosby still sings great with CSN&Y, and I'm sure he could do fine with McGuinn & Hillman. There's no doubt in my mind that they could still put on some extremely quality performances! If we've really "moved on", than we wouldn't be discussing the value of their music right here and now. I still think the remaining Byrds could put on some great performances if they really wanted to. But, whether They want to or nor is the thing that will determine the outcome. I personally think it's rather unlikely. But, I can always hope.

I think you may be misinterpreting where I'm coming from. I don't mean "we've moved on" inthe sense that the world wouldn't appreciate a great new Byrds recording. I mean that now that I'm 48 and having lived the 30 years since the sixties (with all that entails) I no longer find certain things of interest. The types of "causes" that appealed to me when I was 18 don't all excite me any more. Songs and "pop" in particular are "popular" in their time. Some prove to be timeless. Some of the Byrds stuff is timeless - but listening to some of it now is also painful.

I'm more interested now in hearing "songs" in languages I don't even understand because of the feeling of the tunes and the vocal inter-play. The lyrics have no appeal.

I don't relate to any of Britney's or Christina's or N'Syncs recordings from either a musical or lyrical perspective.

There are artists out there who do happen to write lyrical songs about topics that interest me but in general, I'm not a demographic that the music business is interested in satisfying - so song lyrics still (primarily) target teens and teen angst - and I have moved on from there and I suspect that Roger has too.

Crosby, having nearly died, had his transplant, actually settled down, reclaimed his son and his status of fatherhood has also "moved on" from the guy who wrote "Triad"

Ok. Point taken. I'm 24. I know you said that you're 48, but man, it ain't the year it's the mileage! And, I hope you ain't worn out all your good things to say! If so, it's time to replace those Firestone (spare) tires. HA! HA! I don't mean that as a diss. In fact, I can totally relate to not wanting to hear self-loathing songs like the music the media tries to spoon-feed down our throats just for tuning into their Corporate Radio Wasteland to market plastic-ware. Nevertheless, ya can't let it bring ya down. I believe there's still potential room for Funky grooves out there. I still love Rock 'n' Roll.

How about Crosby's 1971 solo album, "If I Could Only Remember My Name", where a lot of the music is just vocal sound-scapes. I can dig it. Like Brian Wilson in the SMiLE era sessions. Heck, some of the music I make has no words either. For example, "Track 5 Take 2" that can be found on my mp3.com page: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/360/lee_paxton.html
Not trying to be self-promotional here, but just trying to give an example of transcendental vocal grooves that anyone can replicate in their own home just for fun. I understand how lyrics can get in the way of a song, but good lyrics can just as easily make a song too. Like Dylan, for instance. His art is what he says, as well as what he plays. Lyrics can defile, define, and re-define. It's all in how you choose to use the words you peruse. Whether you're trying to expose hypocrisy in your songs, like the late Phil Ochs, or building a plush vocal sound-scape, like Brian Wilson during the Pet Sounds era, words and expressions can help us meld our music into something more substantive and artistic than mere background jam music (though I like a lot of that stuff too).