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Can there be any doubt that Gram Parsons took the Byrds in a very different direction with "Sweet Heart of The Rodeo?" While his presence seems to have had a significant influence in moving McGuinn to country rock in 1968, at the same time his involvement may have been a central factor in their demise demise. I am wondering if the Byrds were already at the end of their day or if perhaps Parsons' influence took them past the point of no return. After "Sweet Heart Of The Rodeo" was there any attempt to go back to the "early Byrds' sound?"

I've said it before, and no slight to those who believe otherwise, but I think after 'Sweetheart' the Byrds were never as good. Yeah, Gram was a factor, but I think Chris Hillman's leaving was THE most important reason for the creative drop. Look at the first Burritos LP vs. 'Dr. Byrd' or 'Easy Rider' which (I think) came out about the same time. Hillman is vastly underrated in his importance to the Byrds.

I still have a copy of the LP of that reunion album where they did Cowgirl in the Sand and Laughing. BTW, is that available in CD. It seems to me that was an attempt to go back. I must admit I was one of those fans who got turned off big time with "Sweet heart". However, now that I am older I am able to see its beuty. However, as a young guy who grew up with TTT, et al this was a truly shocking change.

McGuinn has now said that there will never be a reunion of Byrds because they could never recapture the sound and therefore he rather live with what we now have. John Lennon said the same thing about a Beatles reunion before he died. He said that it would be impossible to recreate The Beatles again. This is probably true for most artists. For example I was a fan of James Taylor----- in particular the Apple album and Sweet Baby James. I am not so sure he could pull it off again. Now his sound is much more MOR and he stays away from his remarkable way of picking the acoustic guitar. My disappointment with JT was his heavy use of gospel type backup singers and the move into that sanitized elecric piano sound that is not acoustic or a Rhodes. Ok enough of that!

The Reunion/Asylum release can be had on CD - it was released in the Netherlands (I just got it from amazon).

I think if you listen carefully, you'll notice that once you add Clarence playing his "countrified" leads on YTY and NBB you've opened the doors to Gram and Sweetheart.

The defineable Byrds sound that was lost was a combination of Gene, David and Chris leaving.

Roger by himself does not define the "Byrds" despite the fact that he soldiered onwards with groups of individuals.

Truth be told, Sweetheart isn't all THAT Byrd-like. (Untitled) isn't all that Byrd-like either BUT I love both of those "post" Byrd recordings.

The Reunion/Asylum release was more of a collection of solo recordings that just happened to have all five original members.

In my opinion, Full Circle and Change of Heart are "real" Byrd songs - all the rest on that release are pretty sub-par.

The McGuinn/Clark/Hillman collaborations never felt Byrd-like and Gene was a hard guy to work with.

The biggest puzzle about "Sweetheart" isn't just the music, but the "we would like to thank" listing on the back, which names Roger, Chris, Gram and Kevin. Who are the "we" ? Why couldn't The Byrds take a bow themselves, then name John Hartford and company separately ? This is where I concur with Peter's original words, that for this album at least, The Byrds were past the point of no return. Their brave assertion that they stepped backed from the excesses of acid-rock seems to have left them without a conventional framework to operate in. Please disagree.

From what info I can gather, it seems that Sweetheart was the album that alienated the Byrds from their rock audience at the time. They lost a part of their original fan-base in the late 60s, and perhaps, "going country" was a big part of that. Then, a little later, in the 70s, everyone was trying to get rugged and skanky and going "country" was in. Now, in this day and age, Sweetheart of the Rodeo is looked to as a "cult classic" and a cool piece of early pioneering "country-rock". And, it is cool.

Chris Hillman met Gram Parsons in the bank one day. Gram was talented with a good country voice, and the Byrds "Sweetheart" album introduced him to the world.

This album is a point of contention because it was a major change in the groups style. Although the Byrds sound had always been evolving (there were some hints of "country-rock" in previous releases), this album was the biggest departure from their original sound. Up until then, people probably thought they knew what they were getting when they picked up a record that said "Byrds" on it, and now they weren't sure. It was not a big commercial success. When Hillman left the group, Roger kept it going because he was supposedly left in the financial debt that the name "Byrds" had accumulated over time. The records Roger managed to put out for the remainder of the "Byrds" are not bad at all considering the fact that Clark, Hillman, and Crosby are gone. Nevertheless, Clarence White was in the group during that whole time, and he had been on all the Byrds albums since "Younger Than Yesterday" (1966, when Crosby was still in the group). Once Roger completed the "Byrds" contract with Columbia, he got into his solo stuff (1973). The Byrds "reunion" album was on Asylum records that same year, and was the last Byrds album.

I think, Crosbys leaving was the point of change in the Byrds!
After NBB, McGuinn wanted to do the American-History-Of-Music album, and took Gram Parsons as a keyboarder in the group!
This was another point! One EGO (Dave) was gone, and another EGO (Gram) came!
Gram influenced Hillman to make e country-rock album, and McGuinn had nothing to say...
so they made SOTR, a very good album, but in 1968 it was not the Byrds sound! And many Byrds fans were shocked!
If Crosby was at that point in the group, they didn't make a country-rock album!
Hillmans leaving is also very important!

I think Gram only influenced Hillman, and then, McGuinn was standing alone with his project, and he didn't want to get fired! So he made SOTR and had a lot of fun!

bye

Dennis

P.S: I'm sorry about my english!

Hi Dennis,

Nice to have you here.

I don't think ANYTHING went out as a Byrds release that Roger wasn't 100% behind, so while hiring Gram as a piano player he may have gotten more than he bargained for, I suspect he was quite happy to go along in a new direction.

I know that I am frequently happy to NOT being the one saying: OK, this is what we do next. I suspect that Roger was sort of delighted at the time to have somebody come along with a whole fresh direction.

Gram didn't last long with Roger and the whole vocal thing on Sweetheart was silly - replacing Gram with Roger.

G

I think that the Byrds "canon" ended after "5D."
As much as I enjoyed "Notorious...," you could tell that things were different...unbalanced, if you will, after Gene and David left. I truly missed Gene's writing and David's gift for unusual harmonic structures. Missing the 3-part modal harmonies and Gene's great tunes rendered each of the later album a little suspect to me. "Notorious..." was not a commercial success at the time, and I suspect that in the effort to find find another path back to chart success, (former bluegrass player) Chris found an ally in Gram, and served to press the band in a more consistently countrified direction. After Chris departed (w/Gram) following "Sweetheart," I think the Byrds were essentially Roger and some sidemen (I realize that belittles Clarence White, and I don't mean to, but it wasn't reallly "The" Byrds once Roger was the only remaining original member, any more than Roger Waters could hire 3 guys and "be" Pink Floyd, or McCartney could tour with a 3 session guys as the Beatles...

Time has served "Sweetheart" well. It sounds as good or better today than it did at the time...perhaps it was done a few years too early. I personally much prefer the more polished vocals that Roger contributed to Gram's raw style, though I suspect the entire production process must have been difficult, disjointed and uneven. Ther are great tunes on there: "100 Years...," "Hickory Wind," "You Don't Miss Your Water," etc. And it's interesting to think of all the old-time country stars who assisted in its production. Come to think of it, "Sweetheart" was about as clearly a "Byrds" album as "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" was a Nitty Gritty Dirt Band album. Both were dominated by sidemen and guest stars...

It can probably be agreed that the Byrds never produced another great and consistent album after this period, though most if not all the subsequent Byrds albums were enjoyable in varying degrees and had some outstanding moments. I particularly enjoy parts of "Ballad of Easy Rider," and "Farther Along" and "Bugler" are great performances, too. And, by the way, *what* in the wide world of sports was up with the alleged production on "Dr Byrds..."? The overall sound was absolutely 3rd rate. Had Columbia given up on them by then, or was the record hurried onto the market to try and get the group back onto the R&R charts after "Sweetheart" cratered? I've long wondered about that.

I personally liked the reunion album a bunch and wish that I had it on CD. About half the album was quite good, while the other part was diminished by ego-tripping and poor production (Cros), which made it sound thrown-together. That mightv'e been a fine album if, say, Terry Melcher or Gary Usher had done the production work. I like "Full Circle," "Cowgirl in the Sand," and "See the Sky...", although when Roger comes in on the Ricky before the final verse on "...Sky...", it almost blows you out of the room. It would be fascinating to hear a completely remastered version of that album, wouldn't it? There's a lot of fine material in there.

Paul - The REUNION lp is available on CD as an import.

G