8.3 7.4 scatterwound toasters.

[wim]

I ordered me 2 '7.4k ohm scatterwound vintage reissue toaster pickups' -wow- and they turn out to be 8.3K ohm.
Shall I return them?

Just kidding.
They are 8.3 K ohm though but sound really good in my project rickie-style guitar.
And I mean REALLY.
They seem to be a lot hotter than the 7.3 unwound toasters in my 360v64 though. The difference is striking.
What could cause this?
(distance to strings is about the same)
Also I noticed there are mold ejection marks on the bobbin plastic, right where the bread would go into the toaster. Is this normal these days?
And one has magnets for both e strings that extend just a little further than the rest on the underside. Is that normal too? the other pup has equal length magnets.

[admin]

Wim: John Hall may be able to respond to your questions better than I, however, I have seen variation in the length of the magnets on these pickups.

To be honest, outside of my 12 strings, I actually prefer a toaster that is hotter. I have had one wound to about 13 KOhms on my 350 that I really love.

[johnhall]

As I have said many time before, all meters and their leads are not created equal.

All toasters have had the mold marks again for several years. It's ridiculous that we actually paid to have this "defect" put back in.

The magnets are glued into the bobbin and depending on the amount of adhesive in the hole, they can extend out a bit in an irregular fashion.

[soundmasterg]

The pair of scatter toasters that I have came in around 6.3k or so. I haven't tried them in a guitar yet but they were a little weaker than I wanted to use on my bass so they're sitting for now until I get a RIC 12.

I was surprised at how low the inductance is on the RIC toaster pickups compared to a Strat or Tele pickup. The RIC pickup was like 1.7 henries (at 1000khz), whereas the Strat is around 2.2 henries and the Tele bridge pickup is around 3.5 henries. It affects the high end among other things, with less high end the higher the inductance number is. Helps to explain why the toasters are a brighter sounding pickup than some.

[wim]

This forum is just too great!

Thanks, Peter, John and Greg

[david_schwab]

Greg, it probably has something to do with the poles (core) in the toasters, as opposed to the magnets in the Fender pickups.

[soundmasterg]

David, the toasters use alnico slugs just like the Fenders do, but the toaster has more of the slug extending below the coil whereas the Fender's coil is as tall as the whole slug. Also, the slugs in the toaster are bigger around than the Fenders. I would guess myself that the height of the coil also plays into it since the RIC pickups have such a short coil. I'm guessing also that maybe the magnets in the toaster, despite being bigger, are a weaker formulation than the Fenders. I'll have to check it out with a pickup winder friend I have locally when I get a chance.

[david_schwab]

My toasters had the six long magnets. I'm guessing the newer bass units have 4? I haven't seen one in person. A Fender Jazz pickup has 8 magnets, though they are thinner in diameter. I wonder how much the extra magnets would effect the inductance?

I wonder what a P bass pickup measures? It also has a squat coil.

Of course if you just wind your wire directly onto a ceramic magnet, you will get the inductance of an air coil...

[jps]

All toasters have six magnets, they are the same for guitar or bass with the exception of the threaded mounting holes on the "bass" toaster. A nice thing about the toasters is the even string to string balance of them.

[soundmasterg]

I can find out the inductance of a P-bass pickup and J bass pickup and post here within a couple days. Bass pickups are usually hotter and cleaner than guitar pickups, so I would guess the inductance would be a bit higher, but we'll see. The inductance is affected by how much wire, and the metals in and around a coil, and the strength and type of the magnetic material. I'm sure there are other things that affect it, but those are a couple I've learned so far. The arrangement of the metals to the coil in the pickup also affects inductance. The lower the inductance number, the brighter the pickup usually. Here are some other examples.

stock vintage Strat = 2.2 Henries

hot strat = 4 henries

stock tele neck = 2.4 henries

stock tele bridge = 3.5 henries

P90 stock = 4.5 henries

V63 bridge = 4.9 henries

Toaster = 2.3 henries (was incorrect before, had meter set wrong)

Ric 230 humbucker = 1.4 henries (AC resistance is really high on these at 19.8k, but not sure what this means)

Seymour Duncan JB full size humbucker = 8 henries

Seymour Duncan Alnico 2 pro neck full size
humbucker = 4 henries

Adeson copy of original Burns Tri Sonic pickups (uses an air coil) = 2.199 to 2.440 henries

Squire strat from 1984 with ceramic bar magnets = 2.9 henries (sound good, but are bright when clean)

modern mexican made strat with alnico magnets = 1.6 henries (really bright and thin sounding)

The Tele bridge pickup inductance isn't overly low, yet it is very bright often. Part of this is the shape and height of the coil,(skinny and tall) part is the metal baseplate on the bottom, and part is the circuit it works in. Remove the bright cap across the volume in a Tele and they aren't quite as bright. On the other hand, the P90 isn't super high on the inductance, but because of the shape and height of the coil (wide and short coil), and the arrangement and amount of the magnets, P90s are powerful and thick sounding pickups.

I'm sure others could shed more light on what inductance means as far as sound is concerned. I'm still learning myself, but it is interesting to compare numbers and sounds.

[johnhall]

I've forgotten exactly what affects inductance but capacitance is another important measure of a pickup. We are now doing DC resistance, inductance, and capacitance checks on all pickups being produced.

It's unfortunate they're called "henries"- it'd be better, at least for pickups, if they were called "georges". I'd even take "seymours" over "henries".

[dale_fortune]

Maybe even Johnies

[soundmasterg]

How do you accurately measure the capacitance Mr. Hall? I've got an Extech meter that I use to check the inductance, AC resistance, and Q, and I use my DMM for the DCR. I haven't tried it's cap function to see if it would work accurately on a pickup. Is that what you use?? Just a standard cap meter or the cap function in a DMM?

[david_schwab]

How about "beechums".. oh.. wrong thread!

[johnhall]

The Extech 380193's that we use measure the capacitance as true LCR meters. The Flukes also measure capacitance.