Hello all-
I'm finally going to finish up the "restoration" work to my 1960 450 Combo I've got, and I had a question, well a few maybe.
When I got this piece, it had one of the original two pickups still in it- a long pole "toaster" which was located in the neck position. I don't remember the value(I'd have to recheck), and I've since moved it to the bridge position. I play mainly bridge pickup, but there are times I do use both or neck only. The other pickup in it when I got it was a Ric copy pickup(didn't work) which I removed and I put a hi-gain I had lying around in the neck position for the time being.
Well, I just scored another 60's toaster, 7.8 KOhms, correct screws and long pole pieces as well. Here's my question:
What's the difference in the two; long and short pole pieces? This is where my Ric knowledge hits a bump. Is there a big difference in the tonality or "hotness" of the pickup? SHould I ideally have two long pole pickups or one of each, or what?
The guitar is not being returned to pristine condition. It was originally fireglo, and was refinished some time in it's life to a finish which has aged to one very similar to the honey blonde 50's telecasters. It's got some 60's Grovers on it which aren't original, but I like them and may keep them for now(might eventually put correct Klusons).
Advice, opinions welcome. I'm even open to lowering the value of the hotter one if they should be similar.
As I didn't have the original pots, caps, or pickguard when I got it(I got it really cheap), I've had temporary ones in it, but I'd like to have ones more correct to what it originally had.
Again, not looking for vintage pots, caps or anything, just correct values, etc. I could use a better template for the pickguard if anyone has one, and the correct gauge aluminum I should get.
Thanks for any advice or opinions you might have-
Jeff
jokerace72@aol.com
Long pole pieces vs. Short pole pieces
Moderator: jingle_jangle
As the pickup that you have is older ,the magnets may have de-magnetizrd slightly,This will give a slightly warmer tone ,the crispness factor will be less.
I don't know that you could measure this but it will be an audible thing .It's something that I would not mess with .Solidbody Ricks are 'harser in their crisp factor so this is a plus.
Pots...get 4 250K pots with solid shafts,
caps ...get .047mfd ,thisis the stock cap but if you don't want mud when you turn down to 'zero' then try something else...like .022mfd or even a .001 that works nicely.
And if you don't like the sound ,change them out .
As to the tuners,call ALLPARTS and get a set of Kluson knockoffs,ask for the Gotoh brand,not the Taiwanese tuners or the Korean tuners.
At the same time ,and you may have to call several places for these ,get a set of retro fit bushings.These are for the guiatrs that got reamed out for Schaller/Grover tuners and the owners want to return to the original look.Allparts has them ,and so does Stewart/Macdonald...I'd use either place as they have different styles.
The plastic guard is easy ,you need to trace out the hole and cavity pattern and pencil in the pickup mt holes too,then any one in the guitar business should be able to help you out ...if you don't have someone ,Don Adamek here on this site can/could make it for you.
Maybe even the factory could ...but I have no idea.
Long polepiece pickups were the normal setup for years.I will speculate and say that the short ones were only made to help with re-inforcement of the structure of the instruments...such as the neck pickup in the semi-hollow bodied guitars.
The coils are the same and there is plenty of magnet to do the job.See Fender pickups for an example.
But there would be more of a pull with the long ones.
I don't know if thwere is an actual difference ,but that does not seem to be the case.
JH has been pretty good at getting the toasters correct .
Now I will pass the baton to John Hall so you can get the official view.
I don't know that you could measure this but it will be an audible thing .It's something that I would not mess with .Solidbody Ricks are 'harser in their crisp factor so this is a plus.
Pots...get 4 250K pots with solid shafts,
caps ...get .047mfd ,thisis the stock cap but if you don't want mud when you turn down to 'zero' then try something else...like .022mfd or even a .001 that works nicely.
And if you don't like the sound ,change them out .
As to the tuners,call ALLPARTS and get a set of Kluson knockoffs,ask for the Gotoh brand,not the Taiwanese tuners or the Korean tuners.
At the same time ,and you may have to call several places for these ,get a set of retro fit bushings.These are for the guiatrs that got reamed out for Schaller/Grover tuners and the owners want to return to the original look.Allparts has them ,and so does Stewart/Macdonald...I'd use either place as they have different styles.
The plastic guard is easy ,you need to trace out the hole and cavity pattern and pencil in the pickup mt holes too,then any one in the guitar business should be able to help you out ...if you don't have someone ,Don Adamek here on this site can/could make it for you.
Maybe even the factory could ...but I have no idea.
Long polepiece pickups were the normal setup for years.I will speculate and say that the short ones were only made to help with re-inforcement of the structure of the instruments...such as the neck pickup in the semi-hollow bodied guitars.
The coils are the same and there is plenty of magnet to do the job.See Fender pickups for an example.
But there would be more of a pull with the long ones.
I don't know if thwere is an actual difference ,but that does not seem to be the case.
JH has been pretty good at getting the toasters correct .
Now I will pass the baton to John Hall so you can get the official view.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
-
anon
Mark-
Thanks a lot. I do appreciate it. Let me clear up a few things you commented on though.
The original pickup I have was about the same Ohm reading, at least fairly close in my recollection, so I was just figuring whichever seems to read higher I would put in the bridge position as I use it more. I welcome the advice on the pots and caps. I assume I just use the wiring schematic for the 4 control/2 pickup assembly as that's what originally was on this guitar. The .047 cap is probably the way I'll go.
This guitar has 60's Grovers on it(not original, but no modifications), so the bushings are already correct and no holes have been reamed out in the headstock. If I do replace the tuners, I don't have to worry about the step down bushings(Stew Mac does have these though-I used them for another project).
As for the pickguard/control plate, the one I made right now is lucite. It was, however, andonized aluminum originally for my guitar. I think it was late '60/early '61 when they changed over to lucite. I've heard good thinggs about Don's work, but I am very skilled in plastic work like that so it's not a problem. I've got the source for the correct material, I just need a correct template for a '60/61 configuration with the square bridge cutout(gotta remind John Williams as he's got one very close to my serial##) I love this guitar, it has a great feel, so I'll be glad to get it up and running again. Thanks a lot!!-Jeff
Thanks a lot. I do appreciate it. Let me clear up a few things you commented on though.
The original pickup I have was about the same Ohm reading, at least fairly close in my recollection, so I was just figuring whichever seems to read higher I would put in the bridge position as I use it more. I welcome the advice on the pots and caps. I assume I just use the wiring schematic for the 4 control/2 pickup assembly as that's what originally was on this guitar. The .047 cap is probably the way I'll go.
This guitar has 60's Grovers on it(not original, but no modifications), so the bushings are already correct and no holes have been reamed out in the headstock. If I do replace the tuners, I don't have to worry about the step down bushings(Stew Mac does have these though-I used them for another project).
As for the pickguard/control plate, the one I made right now is lucite. It was, however, andonized aluminum originally for my guitar. I think it was late '60/early '61 when they changed over to lucite. I've heard good thinggs about Don's work, but I am very skilled in plastic work like that so it's not a problem. I've got the source for the correct material, I just need a correct template for a '60/61 configuration with the square bridge cutout(gotta remind John Williams as he's got one very close to my serial##) I love this guitar, it has a great feel, so I'll be glad to get it up and running again. Thanks a lot!!-Jeff
If John Williams has one of these models ,perhaps he would be willing to give you a tracing of the guard and then it could be made.
Aluminum is a non ferrous material and can be cut using some wood working tools .
Same item tools as for plastics.
The anodizing is another matter and you should check the yellow pages in your area under plating .
You may even call some machine shops or aluminum suppliers and ask who does lots of aluminum work and see if you could get your guard in on a run of 'plating' .I don't know how feasible that is ,but worth looking into .
Good luck.
Aluminum is a non ferrous material and can be cut using some wood working tools .
Same item tools as for plastics.
The anodizing is another matter and you should check the yellow pages in your area under plating .
You may even call some machine shops or aluminum suppliers and ask who does lots of aluminum work and see if you could get your guard in on a run of 'plating' .I don't know how feasible that is ,but worth looking into .
Good luck.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!