Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Someone has a Tom Petty pickguard, truss rod cover, jackplate, and certificate of authenticity for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2384&item=2500395505

The seller's other auction's include the pickups and case, but no guitar.

Termites?

Richard: A very good question indeed. I find this most disturbing. I respect the right of every guitar owner to modify his or her own instrument to suit their own taste. Unfortunately, this eBay sale provides for the opportunity for someone to pass off an instrument as a Tom Petty that isn't. To my way of thinking, without the guitar, does the certificate have any meaning or legitimate purpose at this point either than to document the one-time existence of the instrument to which it belonged.

I saw the same item(s) on e-bay. I wonder if this sale is potentially legally actionable (J Hall?).

One of the likely reasons for puchasing the pickguard, truss rod cover, and certificate of authenticity for the TP 660 is to be able to pass of a non-TP 660 as a Limited Edition Tom Petty model 660, and potentially command more $$$ for the guitar when it is offered for sale.

My question is: wouldn't such a sale constitute an act of fraud, or at least theft by deception? And wouldn't the knowledge that there likely exists (at least) one "counterfeit" TP 660 potentially depress the value of ALL other legitimate TP 660's?

This would serve to "injure" all owners, buyers, and potential buyers of Limited Edition Tom Petty 660 guitars. What, if anything, can be done about this situation?

Your thoughts are mine exactly Paul.

As a 660/12TP owner, it certainly doesnt make me happy. Im sure JH is on it, but Im shocked that its all still up there on eBay today.

I understand what everyone is saying, and mostly agree, but what if someone's 660/12TP got run over by a Winnebago, but miraculously, the TRC, pickguard and electronics etc. were undamaged? Would it be as objectionable to auction-off this destroyed guitar (assuming no luthier in the universe [not including Mark ] can salvage any other part of the guitar)?

You guys are right of course for being concerned. However, the seller has the right to sell these items if legit. The concern is really in what motivation the buyer has behind purchasing the items.

I agree that if the seller legally obtained the guitar and/or parts, then he has the right to sell them. The fraud would occur if the buyer placed those parts on a 660 (or 620)and tried to profit by passing it off as a TP.

Another question that I have is, would these parts be an exact replacement for those on a 660 and /or a 620? The pickguard on my 360/12 CW would not be a replacement for one on a 360, but would fit a 360v64.

Of course selling parts from a guitar is legal, assuming that one first *owns* the parts that he offers for sale. It is the end use of those parts that is likely to be fraudulent; and to my mind, that is where the ebay item approaches the line of questionable ethics or criminal activity:

- Illegal to sell the parts? No.
- Illegal to buy the parts? No.
- Illegal to place the parts on a non-TP 660 to make it appear to be a TP? No; unethical.
- Illegal to sell said guitar as a TP? Yes; fraudulent.

So then, is it illegal to sell the parts to someone *knowing* the potential for their use in the commission of a crime? Very possibly.

Notice, too, that today the same seller is offering 2 TP toaster pickups and the TP vintage case. The plot thickens...what the heck happened to the guitar???

Paul said, "...what the heck happened to the guitar???"

That was my original question! Inquiring minds want to know.

maybe his neck became horribly warped, is teh only thing I can think of. Too much time in a hot car or sumthin.

JP

I e-mailed the seller a few days ago when I saw the ad and was informed that he had bought the near-mint 660/12TP and it arrived with a broken neck, courtesy of the shipping gremlins (name withheld to protect the guilty). I have advised him to consider selling the guitar as well, even in its broken state.

I think it's worthwhile to note what the serial number (and certifiacte number as well) is for future reference, in case some unscrupulous person decides to "do a fast one" and dress up a regular-issue 660/12 and pass it off as a signature series. This is my concern with regard to the sale of these parts.

Sorry for misspelling "certificate" - the hand is quicker than the eye - or maybe the mind is quicker than the finger?

Yeah I also got the shipping gremlin story, and also no reply when I asked how the neck was damaged but not the case. I also offered to buy whatwas left of teh body in the same message and that conjured no response.

Sumthin stinks
(oh wait, shouldnt have taken my shoes off)

JP