Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

OK, on a request from Peter, here's some new Byrds
stuff to think on.The title of this thread refers to "jangle", and since it is Byrds that is the general topic, it is safe to assume[someone correct me if I am being presumptious] that the term Had to have been lifted from the verse in "Mr. Tambourine Man" ..."the jingle Jangle
morning, I'll come following you.."In recent years, it seems the term "jangle " has been used loosely and generically, even when referring to 6 string music.I'd like Byrd fans here to respond with their favorite example of Byrds/Rick12 jangle, citing a song from whatever period of Byrds history.One ground rule here; References to
Byrds material done since Roger acquired the 370-12RM not considered,if for no other reason, it's not actually the Byrds per se.So give us your faves, from Tambourine Man, thru the '73 reunion
LP, and maybe , if you are particularly obsessed with a song and it's tonal content, feel freeto try to articulate what really grabs you about it.
Also, if for no other reason, because the big radio hits are so familiar,try to cite more obscure, or less heard tracks, and tell us what you've heard after endless replays over the years,
especially, like myself,after I finally switched from LPs to CDs.Go for it!!

Ok...I'll pipe in before anyone else...

I think "Bells of Rhymney " comes to mind first...that D suspension drove me wild in 1965...and it was the first Byrds move I was able to emulate on my old Silvertone Jupiter...and actually get some of the jangle going...took me about 30 years to figure that dropping the low E string to D would get me even closer...

The version of "Chimes of Freedom" off of the "Mr. Tambourine Man" LP was another....the intro was the second move I copped...

"Jesus is Just Alright"....off of "Easy Rider"...great 12 string jangle combined with Clarence White's use of what I refer to as the "Honky Tonk Women" chord...that cool two string bend...part stringbender-part finger...but I probabally have the egg before the chicken on that one...

There...I took 3...so I'll shut up..

THe one that got me the first time was one day back in the 1960's at Don Adameks house and he played me the "Turn,Turn,Turn" single with the flip side of "She Don't Care About Time".

This was the classic 'jangle for me .Both side moved me .The LP/Cd was Good ...but these 2 songs were like a double A side to my ears.
Roger/Jim really nailed it .The vocals floored me .
I could not wait to hear more .My big "Brother" was turning me into something that I had no idea what I was to become .

THANKS A LOT ADAMEK!!!!

For whatever reason, I do Not remember us listening to that Byrds single, but I won't argue
the point. I Do remember You giving Me the TTT LP
for Xmas in, must have been somewhere between
'68-'69 at your Grandmas house..
If I had to pick just 1 oldie that killed me, it would be hearing "It wont be wrong", with that harmonized/counterpoint 12 and 6 [or is it actually 2 12s?]Now I'm bugged by this. I'm going to email Roger and ask him Who did What on that;
was the harmonized intro him and Croz, or him overdubbing himself?I can't tell you how many times I've put just that song on, cranked it, and just sat and totally Melted from the sound and tone and power of that.

A P.S. to the last post; I just emailed Both Roger and David about that song, so we'll see who says what about who and what and how.

Yes you did give me that LP for Xmas in 1968 ,but previous to that we sat in your room and listened to the single .I distinctly remember the Bach part and your Mom explained it to me.

End of part two of the Don and Mark show ...

Earth to Mark; OK, what is/was it? I said You gave Me the LP, ;now You said I gave it to YOU;this sounds more like a Laurel and Hardy deal...
[with finality in his typing hand, he writes]
I got it from You. End of deal.Yeah, I've got
some explaining to do for what I turned you into.
And Dad said You were a bad influence on Me??
I demand a recount!!!

Well, I got a reply back from Roger on who did what on "It Won't Be Wrong"; He says,"David is playing a rhythm part, I'm playing a rhythm part
And overdubbing my 12 string."So I guess the answer to "who played the harmonized /counterpoint
intro riff" is, "Roger did, by overdubbing and having 2 Ricks" in the sonic stack.There is such a density to the whole sound and tone of that song.No wonder it sounds so cool.Maybe David will give us input as well, but likely, Roger said it all here.

I love "It Won't Be Wrong", especially the part where the twelve-string (or is it a six overdubbed?) breaks out into that lead part. It amazes me how much that sounds like an R.E.M. song, only it is thirty years older! The lyrics could be improved, but I'm not complaining. I love that song! It has a lot of energy and power.

Is this a private party or can anyone, chime in?
Check out the intro to "Don't Doubt Yourself Babe" on MTM. Man does that Ric ever sound gnarly-- Roger says he prefers the metalic sound of finger picks and you can really hear it on this one. Great song too BTW. Think that bass ride was intentional.

One other point. Ever notice how Roger will sometimes drone which is cool What's Happening, She Don't Care about Time -- , but on other songs he just kind of drops that Ric sound out ther like on the original Baby Blue or Oh, Susana--man can he hang you out there!

This is NEVER a private party!!!
The more the merrier

"5D", "Wild Mountain Thyme", nearly all of Fifth Dimension, the Byrds' version of Carole King's "Goin' Back", and the rest of Notorious Byrd Bros. have lovely 12-string grooves throughout them!
I really love the sound, the style, and the positive vibes in the music of the Byrds. In fact, I would have to say that the Byrds and Cream are my two favorite rock bands ever.

I'll never forget when I first heard, "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man!", sliding over the radio, sun shining, slightly high, through the speakers of my old chevy truck. It nearly brought a tear to my eye!

"Turn! Turn! Turn!" was the first album that really "turned" me on to the Byrds though, and was the first record I ever bought, and I still have it! "He Was A Friend of Mine" still makes me want to break down and cry sometimes.

Fifth Dimension turned me on to the grand music of John Coltrane (I already "dug" Shankar by that time), and I still own the old Mono of this album too.

Younger Than Yesterday was also good, but "the Sound" (of the Ric 12-string) didn't seem to be there as much. Very Good songs here. Although, I believe the version of "Why" wasn't as good as the single that had been released nearly a year before!

Notorious Byrd Brothers was probably my favorite album, because it was totally "Outer Space"! Anymore though, I LOVE the 20-bit Re-issue of Fifth Dimension (because of the wild bonus tracks) as much as N.Byrd Bros. Nevertheless, N.Byrd Bros. is probably the most far-out. "Draft Morning" is excellent, to say the least, and "Change is NOW" is a Cosmic Anthem! I was glad they decided "Goin' Back" to the 12-string sound was `the way` after Younger Than Yesterday.

Sweetheart of the Rodeo was very Good, and proved that the remaining members had the ability to transcend their previous musical classification. The banjos , mandolins, and slide guitars were an interesting departure from the group's previous style, but I Really missed the 12-string sound! The 12-string was the most unique thing about the Byrds, going "country" was too, but..... I liked the "jangle". After this, I didn't just run out and buy everything they made anymore. The thing for Easy Rider wasn't bad though, and "Jesus is Just Alright" was great and hilarious to me, and even the reunion album had its moments ("Born to Rock & Roll", and Neil Young's "See the Sky About to Rain"). Nevertheless, it's their mid 60s "jangle" music that continues to inspire me the most.

You can hear some great ric sounds on the somewhat hard to find and often maligned "Roger McGuinn and Band" and on the McGuinn-Hillman "City".
The first is overall not that bad from a rock'n'roll perspective -think Beatles White Album on a very tight budget, and Roger really rocks that Ric on Somebody Loves You, So Long, Bulldog, Born to Rock'n'Roll(certainly the rock-iest version (without Crosby's too sweet Cheerleading).
And some great ballads too--try Painted Lady, Easy Does It, or Circle Song.

"City" is, in my opinion, a "Notorious Byrd Brothers" in it's own right ( Sorry to say, it is damn near ruined by Painted Fire which is probably one of the weakest/lamest songs from Gene Clark, who otherwise is a brilliant and prolific songwriter.) Check out Won't Let You Down, Deeper In, One More Chance, Giving Herself Away or anything else on there-- MCGuinn and Hillman left alone in a studio are always awesome. One wonders why this hasn't been allowed to happen more often--I guess the ego of most of today's producers doesn't allow room for anyone else to paint the Sistine Chapel!

Mark the MD wrote:
This is NEVER a private party!!!

More like a Tribal Gathering on a Lazy Day with Old Blue by yer side (and everyone gettin' Eight Miles High), eh? Jangle on, gents.

"John Riley" has an interesting guitar groove that, perhaps, influenced the '90s experimental post-punk band FUGAZI. Hey, and Guy Piccioto of Fugazi even plays a Ric! (Check Fugazi out, if ya'll haven't already).

"I See You" has ultimate FUNKY lead parts in it, as does "What's Happening?!?!"

"The World Turns All Around Her" is a personal favourite of mine, as is the Byrd's version of Dylan's "Lay Down Your Weary Tune". Gene Clark's "If You're Gone" has some awesome chanting going on in the background too!

"Natural Harmony" reminds me of taking LSD, and "Get to You" is beautiful ('though the 12-string sound is played down). The sound of "Tribal Gathering" and "Dolphins' Smile" helped pave the way for the future music that David Crosby would later make with Steven Stills, and Graham Nash. As has been stated before elsewhere on this site, "Draft Morning" (1968) sounds a lot like Pink Floyd's "Us & Them" from Dark Side of the Moon (1974).

Tom Petty, R.E.M., Fugazi, King Missile, Love, the Beatles, the Doors, etc..
You bet, without a doubt,
The Byrds' SOUND is VERY influential!

Just as they were very influenced by Dylan, Pete Seeger, the Beach Boys, and the Beatles themselves.

In fact, the Beach Boys and the Byrds were probably the two most influencial American bands of the mid 1960s (especially to English bands like the Beatles, the Who, and the Moody Blues, to name a few). Oh, and Carl Wilson of the Beach Boys also played a Ric!