Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hey fellow Rickenfreaks:

I have noticed that my 650 Dakota, more than any other guitar that I own, seems to transfer the bulk of its throaty tone through the wide, flat, unfinished neck. I can really feel it vibrating when I lean into it, moreso than my other set-neck guitars. My guess is that this, in combination with the cool mini humbuckers, accounts for the unusually well focused and slightly "brown" tone. I wonder how much the walnut wings actually contribute.

I also wonder what would happen if I replaced the foam pickup mounts with a less acoustically absorbant material--perhaps a soft wood like balsa or maybe even cork. Has anyone tried this?

Additionally, do any of you have any string recommendations for this instrument? What about guages? Currently, I have a set of Tomastik Infeld Power Brights, heavy bottom (.009-.046). Don't get me wrong; I love the sound of this guitar. It is one of the few that I own that I can play through a heavily overdriven amp and still hear the inherent acoustic properties of both the bridge and neck pickups, even with an extreme amount of preamp drive. But I am always up for experimenting, as long as I don't turn my beloved axe into a science project with irreversable mods.

Oh, and one more thing. Have any of you noticed that this guitar sounds terrific through a small tube amp with an 8" speaker? I have this 5 watt Crate EL 84 powered VC508 with a finger jointed solid oak cabinet (a special run that Crate did a couple of years ago) and a Celestion Vintage 8" speaker (aftermarket mod.). I stuck a JAN Phillips 12AT7 in place of the stock 12AX7 in the preamp socket to reduce the gain factor slightly and I get MONSTER tones from the Dakota. It sounds like a huge Marshall stack, only at volume levels that will not deafen me. I did have to remove the thin oak panel that covered the amp section because it was acting like a soundboard and emitting some very bad sounding vibrations (this seems to be a St. Louis Music curse--vibrating cabs!). I need to replace it for safety reasons. I may just cover the original with tolex.

There is a song on my website that features this combo with the Dakota:

http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb

Rock on, fellow Dakotan's!

When I got my 650D, all that I had was a Kustom Tube 12 with a Celestion Super 8 speaker worth about $100 new. Decent tone, but it got farty when you tried to shove loud bass notes through it. Also, the Chinese 12AX7 tube sounded like bees in a glass jar when using the gain stage for distortion. I changed to a NOS RCA 12AY7 tube and that smoothed out the distortion and gave it a bluesier tone. I changed the speaker to a Celestion Vintage 8, and that got rid of the farty low end. The sound is now tight and defined. I bought a Korg AX1G effects pedal, and that gave it great versatility.

My JAN Philips 12AT7 tubes howled like a banshee as they were evidently made for DC filament supply, which the cheap Kustom Tube 12 does not have.

Electro-Harmonix 12AX7, JJ ECC83S, and Ei ECC83 tubes all sound good in the Tube 12 with the Dakota guitar, as well as the NOS 12AY7.

That Vintage 8 speaker is a very good 8" speaker for upgrading your practice amp. More people should discover the virtues of small amps. I have two Kustom Tube 12 amps that I play through a homemade switchbox and the Korg AX1G pedal. You can play two levels of distortion at once and get unique sounds. The overdrive and sustain certainly do surprise people. The cost of all the amp gear was about $500 new, including upgraded speakers, pedal, and tubes. No need to break the bank for a big amp.

I agree that a good little amp can sound a lot bigger than it is with the Dakota guitar. In a small room, it can sound a lot better than a big amp as well.

I can't comment on the pickups since I replaced them; they're a little too brown for the type of music we play. But a maple neck-thru is gonna sound like maple, regardless of the wing wood.
The note's fundamental is dominant, not too many overtones and heavily distorted chords ring with clarity and definition. I couldn't believe how much low end comes from this guitar, it's a little too much. I reduced this by backing off the 4 screws that secure the bridge to the body one full turn. This reduced the bass while adding overtones in the upper registers for less sterile lead playing. Jeff, I use 9-46 too, great for rhythm clarity and easy lead playing. Sorry guys, I use a big amp, but it's necessary for the kind of music we play. Nice site Jeff and cool songs. You can cover all the bases with all those guitars!The Dakota is just killer. I've used it 100% at my last two gigs and will use it this Saturday. And to think, I bought it as a backup!

Yes, Rock On!!

Jeffrey,

The songs and sound samples on your site are great. I don't think the Dakota sound is for me, but I can point a friend of mine who's looking at the 650D over to your site to hear what it can do.

Thanks for the responses. What kind of pickups are you using on your Dakota, Mark?

The thing that confuses me about this guitar is that considering the amount of maple, I would expect a much brighter, snappier sound, sort of like a Telecaster with a maple neck. Besides the pickups, is there anything under the hood that may be rolling off the top end--capaciters, perhaps? I'm going to have a look when I get home tonight. Or is it the way that the pickups attach to the guitar? Or is it the design of the pickups, themselves? It's probably a combination of several of these design features.

I'd say that mine is pretty snappy, even with the stock pickups - though definitely not as bright as a Tele. In view of previous comments, I wonder if it's because my pickups are jammed solid into their cavities - the adjustment screws do nothing - and thus have a very tight coupling with the wood?

I don't think that there's anything unusual about the wiring - you can find the circuit here: http://www.rickenbacker.com/us/19501.htm. There was a fairly recent discussion in alt.guitar. rickenbacker which indicated that there can be a very wide tolerance (+/-30%) in the actual values of the pots used for volume and tone controls, which in turn can have a substantial effect on the overall tone.

Also, I use D'Addario .010-.046 strings on mine - gives me a little more 'weight' in the top end and a better string-to-string balance than the stock string gauges. I'm playing mostly rhythm, though.

I've been using .012 - .054 strings for the last couple of years. Love 'em. The 650 is one of my favorite Ricks. I usually play it thru a late '50's Rickenbacker M-11A or a Peavey Combo 30.

Jeff, the Dakota threw me off too when I first played it. Very meaty and not much high end as compared to other guitars that I have. I figured it was mostly the pickups, and it is. They remind me of a EMG85, more bass than treble. I tried wiring them in parallel (they have 4-conductor cable) and changing the pot to 500K, which helped a bit, but still wasn't to my liking. That's why I replaced them. But I would say that doing the above 2 things, and lifting the bridge slightly off the body will get you more brightness.
I have, temporarily, an EMG-81 in the bridge and
a strat pickup in the neck. I was waiting for Bill Lawrence to make me a L500XL for the bridge, and I finally got it. But I'm too busy playing it to put it in 8^D

Well, I have not had the same experiences with my 650D that most of those above have had. Maybe a Vintage 30, Vintage 10, or Vintage 8 speaker would brighten things up a bit. The Kustom Tube 12 is a warm amp to begin with, but my father described the tone of the 650D as "bright and clear" compared to his Gretsch (and he uses lighter srings than I do). My brother backed off the treble when he played my 650D and quoted a bit of advice from Carlos Santana, "back off the treble, kiddies!".

Through the Traynor YCV40, the sound is a bit warmer, but it has Tung-Sol 5881 tubes and a Seventy 80 speaker in it, which have a reputation for warm response. I use RIC medium gauge compressed roundwound strings (10-42), the kind that came on the guitar. Neither the Tele, Strat, or Les Paul are my notion of the ideal guitar tone, so I am glad my 650D sounds like none of them. You can always order the 650D with vintage pickups, like I did my on 650C, for a more traditional Rickenbacker sound.

Like some of the classic guitars I mentioned, the 650D may some day be noted for its unique tone that is unlike anything else. I think RIC got it right with their OEM strings, but my father prefers something lighter like he uses on his Gretsch.

You can have two 650D Ricks, one with humbuckers and one with vintage single coils, for little more than the price of a Fender Custom Shop or Gibson Les Paul model. That will give you tremendous tonal range and a backup guitar to boot.

Don't forget to try the 650D with something besides a Vox or Fender vintage style amp, which most Rickenbacker owners have preferred in the past. Jeffrey has a Crate VC508, I have a Kustom Tube 12 (both are cheap little practice amps), as well as Marshall and Traynor amps. None of these have been known as the hot setup for a Rickenbacker in the past, but they shine with the 650D. I also agree with Jeffrey that the 650D retains its bridge and neck pickup character as it sends my amps into heavy overdrive. It's an excellent choice for an overdriven lead tone.

Skidmark:
What was your impression of the Rickbucker (heh) wired in parallel? They are advertised as "single-coil voiced humbuckers," so I admit, I have wondered in the past if that meant they were wired parallel to begin with.

Dave, the tone is essentially the same, but a bit cleaner sounding with a bit more treble. Just using one coil sounded good, if you want to deal with ac hum. I just thought of something: I have a spare Q-filter, so I will put the Rickbucker back in the neck position and experiment. A q-filter is an inductor that can be wired various ways; one way has an effect like it removed some windings from the pickup. It works best with hot pickups and these Rics are hot (15Kohm). That just might be the ticket to getting a variety of sounds out of the stock pickups. Bill Lawrence makes these, and they're only 20 bucks. If you want to read more about this thing, go to http://www.billlawrence.com and go to the bl wildgate page; it's a bbs page. I'll check it out after my gig.