Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I hear ya, Mike! I've never been into "collecting" guitars. For one, I don't think I could afford to do it; but more than that, I want to play the darn thing... not look at it or be afraid to mess it up.

It's a piece of wood; a tool. Use it!

Wooly: I am with you on this one and play all of my guitars, such as they are. I do see the merit in collecting, I am just not in the position to do so.

I love to play...collecting is cool in theory, but again - I'm not Bill Gates.

If/when the Peter Buck signature model 360 comes out, I'll order it, and proudly play it all the time.

It is possible to play your guitars and also keep them in great condition. I think that way is the best of both worlds.

"Sweet instruments hung up in cases .. keep their sounds to themselves" William Shakespeare.

Good question, silly concept, I agree with you: Guitars are generally not good investments unless they're real vintage pieces IMO. While I may seek to minimize my "downside" (such as my new 660-12, which cost me less new than I see many go for used), I buy to play. Even my oldest and longest held guitar (the '62 Strat) was bought a LONG time ago as a player and was my only electric guitar for more than 16 yrs.

Best,
Jon

Ever seen Norm Harris's book? (Norm's Rare Guitars: 30 Years of Buying, Selling, and Collecting). It features 600 guitars, including a bunch of gorgeous Ricks. This is just PART of his huge collection.

One of these days I'm gonna publish my own book. "Jeff's Dirty Dozen Guitars: 40 Years of PLAYING Cool, Non-collectable but Great Sounding Guitars."

You can see Jeff's Dirty Dozen here:

http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb

Guitars are built to be played. Some family and friends have suggested that my left-handed 360/12 Carl Wilson is a collector's item. That may be, but it still gets played at least once or twice a week, though not as often as the 1997 or 360/6.

I have been playing guitar for close to if not 40 years. It's been so long, I can't even remember when I started! Only recently, I have been able to start buying guitars to form a collection. In less than a year, I have bought four great guitars including 2 Rics a Fender Strat and a Gibson LP studio DC. I look at it this way. One day I may sell one or all of these guitars but first, I am going to play and play them and when I do sell them, I'm sure they will be bought by someone who will want to play them and take care of them as I do. I don't buy them to someday make a profit, they are just visiting for a while and some may stay longer than others. But, should I decide to sell one of them I will most certainly buy another to take it's place and that one will be played and taken care of like it's predisessor. I just want to play and own many great guitars. Right now I have a collection of seven guitars including the Yamaha FG-230 12 string I bought back in 1971 while stationed in Okinawa. I paid 55 dollars for it then and is the only guitar I played until 1991 when I bought a Fender (MIJ) F-330 12 string. I still have both and still play both. I have no plans at the present to sell any of them. I will probably enjoy their company for many years to come and someday I might start this little rotation. Nothing lasts forever. Enough of this rambling... My next conquest, a 380L PZ!!

Collectors serve a useful purpose. They preserve old equipment in excellent condition for decades so that it can be compared to what is new production. You cannot really do a fair comparison with heavily used equipment that has been repaired and modified. I just bought 4 Tung-Sol 5881 tubes from a guy for $80.00 plus S&H. He gets the tubes from Ham fests when relatives unload an old deceased Ham's gear that was hoarded for decades for whatever it will now bring. Those tubes would go for a minimum of $45 each from tube dealers, and up to $150 in matched pairs (My amp doesn't need matched pairs, few guitar amps do. That's just audiophile needs that got carried over into guitar ampdom). I like getting NOS Tung-Sol 5881 tubes for $5 more that what JJ or Svetlana 6L6GC eastern european tubes cost. Was anybody complaining that an old Ham should be using up all his old tubes rather than collecting them? It's his money that's tied up, so let him collect away!

NOW, carry that thought over into guitars. If there are more old guitars for sale on the market, it tends to hold prices down within reason. If a lot more people had bought Rickenbackers in the past, and stuck them back in the closet like so many other guitars were done, you might could get an old one at a reasonable price today. Used Rickenbackers are usually priced to where getting a new one is a more reasonable alternative. If only more people had bought Rickenbackers in the past and not played them, it would be better for those who want the old Ricks now. Of course, for the long term health of a company, it is best that they do not overproduce to the point of depressing the sales of new guitars because of a glut of used ones.

Some day you may be glad that some folks bought new Ricks and rarely played them. I wish that had happened more than it has in the past, on models that are still useful for modern players. Some of those unused Ricks are 3/4 scale guitars that grown men with large hands found virtually unplayable. They would make great guitars for women and children if they were priced reasonably, which of course they usually aren't.

That's why I only own Rics that are beat up!

Even beat up Ricks aren't available around here, or my brother would own one. Preferably one that he trashed out some more.

Guitars are like fishing lures. In most cases, the beat up ones are that way because they worked and got used a lot.

If a guy has a lot of beat up guitars he likes and plays, but decides to sell one of his nice ones, be leery.

"If only more people had bought Rickenbackers in the past and not played them, it would be better for those who want the old Ricks now."
And this: "Some day you may be glad that some folks bought new Ricks and rarely played them."

Philip - the only problem with your reasoning (and a big one, IMO) is that the more people put their Rics in closets, the less pleasure they give to both the themselves and (one hopes) the listener. Although I guess that anyone who would buy a guitar and stick it in a closet would only be a collector anyway.

In any case, I'm glad that people who bought Rics in the past played them and really used them instead of putting them away for a couple of decades - we all benefited from the music made on them.

I love my Ric and I baby it (I bought it new) - but it is first and foremost a wonderful tool for making music. Someday I'll be able to listen to all the music that I recorded and feel lucky to have used such a toneful instrument (which will be by then, be pretty dinged up indeed).

This discussion has touched upon a number of aspects of collecting. The sentiments expressed here could apply to a number of disciplines including fine art. There are many analogies, however, I will leave them for "The Analogies Forum." The functional versus the aesthetic.

Collectors certainly provide an important role. Many are guitarists themselves and for this reason much can be learned with regard to the playing ability and tonality. Let's face it, one of the ways in which manufacturers of instruments and electronics can produce reissues stems from a detailed examination of the original vintage instrument. Good examples of this are certainly the vintage reissue series and the new C series by Rickenbacker. Without a detailed knowledge of the past, largely obtained from collectors or historians, companies would not be able to replicate such instruments. In the case of VOX and Traynor, older and more seasoned technicians had to be recalled to develop reissues or newer adaptations of classic amplifiers.

A second important aspect of collectors is central to the views expressed by the topics in this Forum. Collectors pour over the details of their instruments from headstock to tailpiece and beyond. It is this curiosity and intrigue that fosters the detailed analysis and discussion of finely crafted Rickenbackers. The questions that we all have about days gone by are only answered with certainty through the investigation of instruments that have been kept in their original unaltered form. Where would we be without the Rickenbacker Museum at RIC or the knowledge of such people as John Hall.

Then there is the armchair collector, of which I include myself, who has has the good fortune of being able to learn about Rickenbackers through the kindness and generosity of those who have shared there firsthand knowledge to the Rickenbacker Registration Page, the Rickenbacker Forum and the alt.guitar.rickenbacker newsgroup and yes eBay. This network of enthusiasts, many with vintage instruments, has made all of us "virtual" collectors.

You don't have to worry about EVERYBODY putting away their Ricks and letting them gather dust. It will never happen. Now that RIC has put more emphasis on the 650 series, a line of guitars that are more affordable to young players and more in tune with what they want to play, you just may hear a lot more Ricks in popular recordings. The 12-string market is a tiny niche, and RIC totally dominates it. In order to grow, something that whips the Les Paul, SG, Strat, and Telecaster types are needed, and at a decent price. The 650 series is the most likely candidate. The entire 600 series is under rated by players in general. The word "Rickenbacker" conjures up visions of 12-string semi-hollow electrics making a jingle jangle sound in the general public's mind, if it conjures up anything at all. Fender isn't going to be able to make much out of Gretsch, unless they come up with some drastically different models at a much lower price. I don't see a Brian Setzer army of Gretsch players taking over yet. Also, the 4004 basses are more in touch with what young bass players need, and larger production numbers should bring the price under what the 4003 models sell for, since the 4004 is a simplified improvement on the 4003. But just try to find a new 4004 in stock anywhere (and few young players could afford one if they found it in stock). I tried and had to settle on a used one made in 1993 (that looked like it spent most of its life in the case). Darn lucky to even find it, too. It cost several hundred dollars more than the used Fender basses it was hanging around with in the music store. Most young players are not after icons of the past, they want modern guitars they can afford. And don't worry, they will probably play them hard and beat them up so you guys can buy yourself another beat up Rick. The 650 and 4004 series are the future of RIC, and I hope they decide to crank them out in increasing numbers so that young players can try them out in music stores around the world. They have definite mojo tone that modern players can appreciate.

If you hang them on your wall, or put them on nice stands, you can get the best of both the collecting and playing worlds. I have all my guitars hanging up as wall decorations whenever I'm not playing them (not in direct sunlight, naturally.) They're just as nice to look at as they are to play, IMHO.