Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

An article about the refinshing of John Lennon's Model 325 to black entitled "Baby's In Black" has been updated and ready to be critiqued. This work has been ongoing for the past five years and I think we are beginning to get a more accurate picture of the events as they took place in September 1962 and again in September 1963 with regard to this instrument.

Peter, a great article that keeps getting even greater at each revision. There is one thing I think should be brought to attention, and others such as Larry Wassgren or Joe Hardman may chime in here...

In the Leslie Andrews section of the article it is mentioned that "......Mr. Andrews comments also explain the reason for the unlacquered finger board of Lennon's 1958 Model 325 in Bacon and Day's "The Rickenbacker Book.", the Rittor publication and photos from the John Lennon Museum in Japan. As DeMarino makes no mention of refretting Lennon's guitar during the 1970s it is reasonably safe to assume that Andrew's refretting and removal of the lacquered finger board has remained untouched since 1964...."...

It is my understanding that all 1958 325's(and most if not all 1958 Ricks period) had unlacquered fingerboards, or to be more specific--the lacquer was not applied to the flat of the fretboard itself; only up to the the side edges of the fretboard and the back of the neck....No lacquer on the playing surface as we see on modern or post 1959-1960 Rickenbackers. My .02 of course, but maybe John Williams, Joe and Larry could add to this.....

This is such a fun topic that will likely never be satisfied to its fullest.

I recenty posted to this thread in Vox Talks:

http://www.voxtalks.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=V12&Post=338

For the last few years I have been researching the Beatles equipment almost on a full time basis. I can tell you for certain that after interviewing most of the available people who were there, nobody agrees on anything. They would all swear on their mother's graves that what they are telling you is the truth, and in their minds they believe it. However, trying to remember the how, what and why from 40 years ago usually doesn't go well after the information gathered in an interview is put up against the "real" evidence available, like photos and film. Photos are routinely mislabled/dated in published works, so there is even that to go up against.

From looking at ALL of the photos that are available, http://www.voxtalks.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=V12&Post=56 I can honestly say that the answers are less than clear.

Leftybass: I have seen a good number of 1958 models that have a lacquered fretboard, however, to be honest, they have been in photos. You make a very good point and the following 1958 Model 325 may be convincing or not. I agree, let's hear from those who own 1958 models that have lacquered fingerboards.

As an aside, the lacquer seems much thinner on the fretboard of my 1966 Model 450/12 that on my 1988 4003 or 1993 350.

The key question would be, did 1958 Model 325 Capris have a lacquered board. I am betting they did, based on photographic evidence alone, but I am not entirely confident that this was so. I does look to me, from color photos of Lennon's guitar, that the fretboard was lacquered.

This will be one for the history books.

I agree Peter. I would like to say I own one(!) but unfortunately I don't (at present heh heh)...

Joe's 325 is a very nice guitar(originally a two-tone brown guitar)? Larry's is still in original condition, as well as Jim King's.

Here is some food for thought, courtesy of John Williams:

http://www.homestead.com/aurs2/petes59315.html

Now this guitar dates from Feb. 1959, and has many differences from a '58 325, but has what appears to be an un-lacquered fretboard. The long-body 325 prototype (sn#V87, six after Lennon's) pictured in detail in the Rittor book, looks to be the same way---un-lacquered on the playing surface. I have noticed some Rickenbacker deluxe models(360-365's) from 1958 that seem to have a light coat of lacquer on them...to confuse things, the 1958 360F owned by David Mclaughlin(Combo 850) has an un-lacquered board.

It is possible that what we may see as a 'sheen' on some of the older guitars in the discussion may be from just plain 'ol wear and tear---I have witnessed this on some of the 58 models I have held personally, but in the short-term there does appear to be no rhyme or reason. We may know the reason soon........and the rhyme!!!

Definitely food for thought John. I am always worried about overstepping the bounds of guitar forensics by relying on a photo that is misleading do to excessive flash or as you say "sheen" from "wear and tear."

This is all interesting stuff. My thoughts are we should remember that Rickenbacker made guitars in batches(I think they still do) and the original run of 28 1958 325's would have all been produced at the same time. I've got number V106 which makes it second to the last in the run of 28. It's all original and never had lacquer on the fretboard(it is lacquered on the side of the fretboard but not the playing surface). Lennon's was the second in the run of 28 and did not have lacquer on the fretboard either. If you use a magnifying glass and look at those early shots of V81 on the floor at the factory in early '58, there is no shine to the fretboard at all. I also owned a '58 345 which was very early and it didn't have lacquer on the fretboard either. I believe it was the same guitar seen to the right of Toots in that famous photo of him sitting next to V81. I also owned an all original '57 Combo 600 that was mint condition and it didn't have lacquer on the fretboard. I don't recall seeing any 1958 Rickenbackers that had lacquer on the fretboard, but I haven't seen them all. I'm guessing if we could get in our 'wayback machine' and head to the summer NAMM show in '58 all those Rickenbackers would have fretboards without lacquer. I think lacquer started to appear late in '58. Of course V81 was the second hollow-body produced but it wasn't shipped to Germany until later in '58. It had two control knobs added but still had the unfinished fretboard when Lennon bought it in October of 1960.

Good to hear from you Larry---There are many mysteries that the 'wayback machine' could solve, no doubt!!! I had always thought the rough implementaion for lacquered boards was around late 1959-early 1960....

FWIW, the last time I held a 325C58 in my hands it had an un-lacquered board..Unfortunately, it is the only one I have played so far, but still true to the original 1958 325 in this one detail.

Larry: Thanks so much for this information about 1958 Model fretboard as well as your observations regarding 1957 and 1958 Rickenbackers in general. There is clearly no substitute for seeing these instruments first hand. I also appreciate your qualifying statement

"I don't recall seeing any 1958 Rickenbackers that had lacquer on the fretboard, but I haven't seen them all."

Spoken like a true Rickenbacker detective. I also agree that this is fascinating work. Time is running out when it comes to finding those people who had direct contact with The Beatles.

I wanted to add here, that Andy Babiuk's book Beatles' Gear was of help to me in locating and eventually communicating with Chris Whorton, a Liverpudlian who made arrangements with a local coach painter to have Lennon's first model 325 painted black.

It turns out that the work was done locally, and not in London by Jim Burns, by a coach painter by the name of Charles Bantam.

This bit of information was a missing link for me and allowed for a better understanding of manner in which his Rickenbacker 325 Capri was painted. This makes so much more sense to me in terms of Lennon's immediate need for his guitar.

A very good article Peter. The only thing I question is 'when' the guitar was painted black. There is no proof that the photo taken by Mike McCartney at the Tower Ballroom was September 21, 1962. Mike took many great photos but his dates are not always correct. On page 9 of Remember he says 'the next week I took another photograph here(pages 82 and 83) with Ringo behind the drums... If you look at those two photos one was taken at the Cavern(page 82) and one at the Tower Ballroom(page 83). I believe the guitar was refinished in either November or December of 1962. I'm still looking at all the photos I have from that period but something is not lining up! Maybe you need to come to Wisconsin and look at my photos as two heads are better than one.

Peter, if you can't get to northern Wisconsin in the next couple of days, maybe the best thing would be if I could e-mail you the photos and you could post them here? I've got about four or five to discuss and try to date. I wish I knew how to post photos here, I need to take time and take a few computer classes..

Here are the photos from Larry.

I can only add this: The fretboard of my Jan. '59 315 is NOT lacquered. The fretboards of either of my '58 365s are NOT lacquered. The fretboard of my '59 345 (3V581)Fall of '59 IS lacquered. So there.

Larry: Is photo 1 the December 15, 1962 Mersey Beat Awards party during which The Beatles performed at the Majestic Ballroom, Conway Street, Birkenhead, L41?