Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

On Thursday, December 28, 2000, Peter McCormack wrote:
By the way Terry. What became of the 1966 Model 370 with the Walnut finish itemized on the shipping invoice?

Good Lord, Peter, if I had a dollar for every time that question has been asked . . . . And it's been asked openly and repeatedly online for all to see for years and years now, still without any definitive answer from anyone who would know for sure. Why? Why the deafening silence regarding the fate of that particular guitar? David Crosby has reportedly denied ever owning or playing a Rickenbacker in The Byrds. Yet that "1966 Model 370 with the Walnut finish itemized on the shipping invoice" is almost assuredly the dark 370Byrd that Crosby is seen strapped into onstage and offstage with The Byrds until "late 1966" in old photographs. If that 370Byrd was truly never Crosby's, then it was almost without question McGuinn's. As a matter of fact, Richard R. Smith's Rickenbacker book states that the Walnut Model 370 was McGuinn's.

Quote:The factory modified his first 1964 Model 360/12 in February 1966 adding a middle pickup, custom wiring, and a new nut. At the same time the factory modified his original guitar, McGuinn bought a new walnut finished 370 and a black Model 325.

Rickenbacker, Richard R. Smith, page 86 And Bacon & Day's Rickenbacker book states that Crosby & McGuinn went to the Rickenbacker factory to obtain custom guitars; so that "walnut finished 370 and a black Model 325" were undoubtedly delivered from the factory with the custom "Byrd wiring" harnesses and pickguards. (Witness Henry McGuinn's custom 1966 black 325Byrd with the "Byrd wiring" harness and pickguard.)

Quote:. . . McGuinn and Byrds' vocalist/guitarist David Crosby went to the Rickenbacker factory and bought some custom guitars.

The Rickenbacker Book, Tony Bacon & Paul Day, page 45 The "fate" and current whereabouts of the other two Rickenbackers on that 1966 factory invoice -- the 1964 Rick 12-string and the black 325 -- are certainly well known. Paul Allen certainly makes no secret of the fact that he has the 1964 Rick 12-string "formerly owned by Roger McGuinn" on display at the Experience Music Project in Mark the MD's backyard: Seattle, Washington. And Roger McGuinn's own son, Henry McGuinn, certainly makes no secret of the fact that he has the 1966 black 325Byrd, and evidently has no problem taking it out and playing it openly and publicly onstage in Southern California. But we never seem to hear a damn thing about that 1966 Rick 370Byrd, do we. For years and years now, not one peep from anyone who might know for sure. And it's not like those people aren't online and never once became aware of the interest that exists concerning what became of that guitar, even if they no longer own it. So, what's the big secret?

By the way Terry. What became of the 1966 Model 370 with the Walnut finish itemized on the shipping invoice?

You know, Peter, years ago when I first showed up on the [url=news:alt.music.byrds]Byrds newsgroup[/url] and began posting there, someone posted a remark to the effect that "Tomcat knows where all the bodies are." Wherever do people get that idea? I may have a special interest in Byrds Rickenbackers, but with those who might actually know the fate of that 1966 Rick 370Byrd either stonewalling or perhaps disseminating disinformation, how is anyone other than Lt. Columbo himself supposed to divine the true fate of that guitar? Is there something to hide? Did that guitar get sold for drugs somewhere along the line and now no one wants to talk about it? Is that guitar AWOL and no one is supposed to know about it cuz certain people are keeping a sharp eye out for it so they can snatch it before anyone else does should it ever surface? Is that why there's so much roaring silence? Is that why neither Crosby nor McGuinn seem to want to admit that guitar's existence? Is that why neither of them seems to want to admit ever owning it? And why do various people ask me about that guitar or think that I might know its fate? It's certainly not hiding under my bed. The guitar was evidently McGuinn's. Shouldn't he know what became of it? Doesn't he still have it? And if not, why not? What did he do with it? Doesn't McGuinn have an e-mail address (or two)? And -- unlike David Crosby who "has never responded to any of [Peter McCormack's ... ns[/color]"! -- doesn't McGuinn supposedly enjoy a reputation as a wonderful guy who smiles, autographs everyone's Rickenbackers, welcomes e-mail, and actually takes the time to answer questions and respond to fan e-mail? What does Dr. Byrds have to Hyde? Isn't McGuinn among those honored as having had personal Registration Page Correspondence with Peter McCormack himself? Why hasn't McGuinn addressed the eternal question concerning the fate of his 1966 Rick 370Byrd? It's not like he wasn't openly online for years and years while this question reared its ubiquitous head time and time and time and again. Why no definitive answer? Why no answer at all? What is there to hide? And if there is nothing to hide, then let's see a photo of the guitar as it appears today, just as everyone demanded of me when I announced what I had? Would that be asking too much, especially for a good cause such as the Rickenbacker Registration Page? Paul Allen has released photos of the 1964 Rick 12-string as it appears today. Henry McGuinn has released photos of the 1966 black 325Byrd as it appears today. I've released photos of my Rick as it appears today. Why can't McGuinn do the same if he still has that 1966 Rick 370Byrd?

By the way Terry. What became of the 1966 Model 370 with the Walnut finish itemized on the shipping invoice?

Well, Peter . . . .

Quote:The only answer I can give you was written by somebody else.

-- David Crosby
Monterey International Pop Festival
Saturday, June 17, 1967 Quote:As always, when all else fails, go to the source!

-- Lt. McCormack
The Rickenbacker Forum
Thursday, December 28, 2000
James Roger McGuinn Quote:Subject: Your 1966 Rickenbacker 370Byrd 6-String, Sir
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:30:00 -0400
From: "Lt. McCormack" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger McGuinn" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Roger McGuinn" <[email protected]>

Dear Mr. McGuinn,

Sorry to intrude, sir, but I was just curious about your custom 1966 Walnut Rickenbacker 370Byrd 6-string -- you know, the 1966 Model 370 with the Walnut finish itemized on this 1966 factory shipping invoice? Isn't that the 370 with the "Byrd wiring" your old pal David Crosby is seen playing in old photographs of The Byrds until "late 1966"? I was just wondering whatever became of that guitar, sir. Do you think you could tell me? It's just a formality.

It's my wife, you see. She's always loved The Byrds, and especially the sound of the great Roger McGuinn playing a Rickenbacker, and I know she'd be thrilled if she knew I received a response from you in this regard. Do you think you could do that? I hope I'm not imposing, sir. I don't want to disturb you or take up any more of your time. I can imagine how it is being a big Hall of Fame celebrity and all. But the wife, she'd really appreciate it, you know. Thank you, sir. Well, that's all I had to say. I'll just look for your reply in my inbox.

Oh, one more thing. I almost forgot. Whatever became of your dark 1960s Gretsch Country Gentleman that you played at Monterey? What was that? A Burgundy colour? Did that go missing, sir? I hope I'm not disturbing you. And whatever became of your cream-coloured 1960s Fender Telecaster that you played throughout the 1970s? Did that get lost, too, sir? Sorry to disturb you. I really must be going now. The wife is expecting me for dinner. But I know she would just be tickled pink if she knew I received an e-mail from the legendary Roger McGuinn of The Byrds. Sorry to bother you, sir. You've really been a great help.


All the best,

Lt. McCormack
Rick Homicide
Canadian Division
For anyone who wishing to "go to the source" themselves and begin conducting their own forensic investigation into the fate of the 1966 Walnut Rickenbacker 370Byrd 6-string, clicking on the Lieutenant below might be as good a place as any to start.

[email protected] (Roger McGuinn), [email protected] (Roger McGuinn)?subject=What became of your 1966 Rickenbacker 370Byrd 6-string??
"Oh, one more thing . . ."

With regards to that "walnut" 370-6 Byrds wired
guitar, it was over a year ago I wrote Croz asking about it.He replied simply, "I never owned
a Rick in the Byrds, so I don't know what I had in the picture[I asked him about a pic of him in Mojo magazine, from '66, holding a dark finished
370-6Byrd]; I was playing Gretsches then. Great guitars, though."
I also wrote John Hall about it, specifically about there being a "Walnut" finish in '66, which
the price lists and catalogs from then do not show Walnut being available.John said, while admitting that, yes, that invoice Did say "Walnut", that getting that color then would have been unusual, or something to that effect.
Then I wrote Roger, and asked him about it, and he said" I don't remember owning a Walnut finished Rick 370-6." I suppose if it Wasn't
actually Walnut[the invoice maybe having a typo??] then, How Would he remember it? If I'd asked about a Jetglo Byrds 6 370, maybe that would
get answered.I personally am of the opinion that that gutar is actually Jetglo, Not Walnut.

I saw the Byrds in late '66 on Long Island, and Crosby was definitely playing a walnut (possibly early autumglo) 360. I had read that this guitar was originally Roger's, and that the jetglo 370-Byrd that Crosby had later came at the same time Roger got his replacement 370-12-Byrd mapleglo.

Dr.: What did I tell you? Those who know about that guitar just can't seem to remember a damn thing about it. Croz claims he doesn't know anything, the factory evidently doesn't know if it can trust its own paperwork, and McGuinn claims he doesn't remember anything.

And we're not talking about an obscure rarely-played guitar, either, such as Henry McGuinn's 325Byrd 6-string.

Quote:Dad said that he had a hard time keeping it in tune. Also, he never played it on stage or in the studio.

-- Henry McGuinn We're talking about a bona fide Byrds Rickenbacker 370Byrd 6-string played onstage with The Byrds by David Crosby throughout 1966 -- a guitar which is documented in at least one Rickenbacker book, a factory invoice, Rogan's Byrds book, and the photographic record. But, clearly, no one who owned or played that 370Byrd 6-string wants to acknowledge that guitar as ever having existed. Why?

Oliver Stone ????

Tom

How do we actually Know that this guitar was "played throughout 1966"? We have less than a handful of existing pics of it at all, with Croz weraing it, but my personal guess is that these few pics are a frozen moment in a very short period of '66, Not the whole year.From what I've gleaned in 34 years of Byrd pic looking, '66 was the year Croz got his Country Gent.I think we just got lucky that the pics of him with the 370-6/Byrd ever came out. Also, the redone "5D " CD insert booklet has a cool pic of the Byrds live with Croz and the 370-6, as well as Hillman with the Guild Starfire bass 2.

Take a close look at that "5D CD insert booklet" photo and tell me: What's that well-trimmed darkness on Hillman's chinny chin chin? A full-blown Maynard? Now ask yourself: When in 1966 did Hillman ever have a Maynard? In early 1966 when Croz first shows up in photos playing that 370Byrd?? Or in late 1966. (See the Oct 1966 Village Gate photos where Hillman's Maynard appears to be in its early peachfuzz stage.) Now date that "5D CD insert booklet" photo where Hillman's Maynard appears more full, dark and well-defined. Should be a cinch for someone with "34 years of Byrd pic looking." Now ask yourself: What's Crosby doing onstage still playing that 370Byrd with a bearded Hillman in late 1966? Early 1966 to late 1966 qualifies as "throughout 1966" in my book. That's my honest evaluation, not a "personal guess" that I arbitrarily pulled out of a hat. Perhaps you can show me where I've missed something.

Chris Hillman - October 1966


Fifth Dimension CD Booklet Photo, Page 12

There appears to be sufficient evidence to support that The Byrds had a Walnut 370 Rickenbacker in the 1960s. The interesting question for me is not how long they had it but rather, if they did, why is it not either acknowledged or remembered. It remains an intriguing question and perhaps one of the more interesting Byrd/Rickenbacker questions to be answered. Why don't we all did a little deeper and see what surfaces. For me, the common goal is that we all enjoy the Byrds and their Rickenbackers. In that light, any differences we have pale by comparison.

maybe it was on lone from Rickenbacker for a tour or one show, didnt Crosby use a Gretsch Tenn. before 66? Did it belong to Gene Clark? maybe he took the Gretsch with him when he quit the group and Crosby ordered a Gretsch country gent and it wasnt ready yet and Rickenbacker loned a 370??? just an idea...What does John Hall say??
I havent seen any very good pictures that showed Crosby with the 370...is everyone sure its a 370 and a byrd model? is there better pictures of it than in the 5d cd?
maybe it was on lone from Rickenbacker and Crosby sold it for a bag or gave it to a friend and no one wants to talk about it, can I say "bag" on here???

tom

For the Record, I have talked to Roger McGuinn and he says his first 12 string was a NEW style that he purchased in late 1964. He never mentioned to me this 370 that everybody is looking for. He was very kind, though.

do you mean a dbl. bound harrison or a rounded over later style?

Rounded over was his first.

Having already emailed Roger, David, and John Hall
about the "walnut"370-6 Byrd Croz had, I asked
Chris,who said,"I would have to see the picture. I really don't remember Crosby ever owning or
borrowing a Ric 6-string. In fact The one song Roger played a 6-string solo on was
"Have you seen her Face" and that was played on a Gretch Tennesean (crosbys'?)"
Roger recently told me that "It's No Use",off
"Mr. Tambourine Man" was Also a 6,which he recalled was done on a Gretsch[probably the Clark/
Crosby Tennessean]