Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Greetings --- looking for some advice from those with experience in fixing/modifying Bridges on the 360-12 model. Seems the stock Bridge lasted not quite two and half years. I was attempting to adjust the String height adjmnt screws and on the low string side, EAD two problems happened: the one height adjustment screw closest to the tailpiece actually would not turn more and snapped, leaving the threaded piece stuck in the Bridge and the other height adjustment screw on the same side kept going nowhere -- it had stripped out the threads and just turns uselessly. A bunch of questions:

1. Has anyone experienced this problem with Ric Bridge adjustment screws ?
2. Is this problem caused by the string tension - if so, are not the Ric Bridges/screws made strong enough to withstand the tension? I am using regular Ric factory issued string sets. And in fact in recent months I had lowered the tuning half a step flat in tuning, as per Roger McGuinn's advice on his 12 String lesson DVD.
3. When I was fooling with the adjustment screws, the Bridge just looked way too slanted --- it was higher on the end towards the R tailpiece. Again is this caused by string tension pressure?
4. With one screw hole stripped and the other with the post of the screw stuck in it, it looks like Bridge replacement is my only option? Do the experts here concur ?
5. Now does anyone have experience with replacing the standard Bridge that comes with these models in 2003 (Part # 00811) which came with only six Bridge intonation screws for the 12w string models - with the new 12 string Bridges (Part # 00821) that Ric now sells ? Is it easy to do for those of us not really mechanically inclined ?
6. Any other advice, opinions, experience with Ric 12 string Bridges or other helpful comments would be most appreciated.

I'm no expert, but I can offer my thoughts...

It sounds like the bridge was not sitting parallel enough to the bridge plate on the body. When you would have been turning the bridge height adjustment screws the downward pressure of the strings and your turning would have been making your turns at an angle to the threads and therefore damaging/stripping them. These parts are also susceptible to rusting since sweat from your hand can gather in the recess.

The four posts on the bridge should all be touching the bridge plate or they will rattle. The bridge itself should be sitting parallel. Once you make height adjustments as part of a set-up, you would need to ever slightly tighten each one to take up the tension.

I don't know how to repair this apart from with a replacement part (some of the other folk may know). A 12-saddle bridge is a direct swap for the 6-saddle bridge you have. No difficulties fitting it at all. However, if you buy a new one, you will need to cut the saddles, i.e. file the grooves for the strings to rest in. There are also big opinions on the tone differences of the two options (6- or 12-saddle bridges). The 6-saddle having a greater mass and therefore better connection between string and body. The 12-saddle providing a means of more accurate intonation.

Also, your bridge cover, if you keep it installed, will fit on either bridge.

Good luck and let me know if I can help.

A bit of Loctite on the screws after setup will keep 'em from wandering.

You may be able to drill & tap the holes for the next larger size screw. You'd probably be better off doing this to all four to keep things even. Just speculation, though, as I've never tried this.
Paul W. & Dale F. will know for sure the best solution.

Clive -- thanks for your quick input. Your mentioning of sitting parallel and the angle downwards pressure stripping the threads sounds like could possibly be the diagnosis. What I am trying to figure out is how this might/would happen ? Does any expert know, if it is possible that once some adjustments are made to the height adjustment screw, that the resulting change in pressure of the strings themselves, would force the Bridge to angle itself more acutely ? As I mentioned in my first post, the Bridge had definitely angled itself so the side facing the headstock was lower than the side facing the R tailpiece. And the "angle" of the Bridge as opposed to sitting parallel looked like an un-natural angle, maybe 60-65 degrees. So I went down to a music store nearby that had a Ric 330 model, (which has a similar Bridge set up as the 360), so I could compare notes on how the height adjustment screws and angle of the Bridge were at on this brand new model. Compared to the new one, mine definitely was at an unnatural angle. As a result, I was trying to even it out by compensating on the other adjustment screws, when the one screw broke and the other was stripped.

So when you say the Bridge should be sitting parallel and all four height adjustment screws touching the Bridge plate, am I correct in understanding that there should be very little difference, if any, between the height then on each of the four adjustment screws ?

Regarding your last paragraph about the 6-saddle and 12-saddle Bridges and the greater mass, tone variations, etc., may I understand that you have made the switch yourself before ? Are you satisfied with the 12-saddle model ? Pardon my ignorance, but why doesn't the factory have the string grooves filed in the saddles already when you get it new ?

Also, do you or anyone else know is there another Forum thread here (under what topic or subject) where this 6-saddle and 12-saddle Bridge has been debated before ? You mentioned there were big opinions on the subject.....
Cheers and many thanks - Rich

What I am trying to figure out is how this might/would happen ?

Sorry, I've no idea. With hindsight, you may have been better removing the strings (and therefore the pressure on the bridge) before making extreme bridge adjustments.

So when you say the Bridge should be sitting parallel and all four height adjustment screws touching the Bridge plate, am I correct in understanding that there should be very little difference, if any, between the height then on each of the four adjustment screws ?

Yes.

Are you satisfied with the 12-saddle model ?

Yes, I have a 12-saddle bridge on a 360/12v64 and it's absolutely fine. The saddles aren't cut from the factory as the string spacing may differ from instrument to instrument and also with personal adjustments, etc. (I guess it's also cheaper)

Also, do you or anyone else know is there another Forum thread here (under what topic or subject) where this 6-saddle and 12-saddle Bridge has been debated before ?

This was debated strongly on the Rickenbacker website forum (www.rickenbacker.com), along with the ability to intonate properly with 6-saddle bridges.

I hope this helps. I personally would get a 12-saddle bridge as a replacement.

Clive --- thank you very much for your cyber-space diagnosis and for your views and recs on the 12-saddle bridge as a replacement. Glad to hear that you have a good experience with the 12-saddle Bridge replacement. I will go check out the Rickenbacker site for the "debate" on the 6-12 saddle subject. Many thanks again. Rich

Hi -

I'm new to the forum, this being my first post. I had a similar problem with my '97 325V59 bridge, in that one of the height adjustment screws stripped out as yours did. My bridge was also at an angle. I ordered a replacement bridge, and exchanged the saddles from the damaged bridge. This kept me from having to cut new slots. Of course, if you're going to change to a 12 saddle bridge, you won't be able to swap saddles.

Good advice, Kris. Welcome to the Forum!

Thanks. I've been lurking for awhile, and learning far more than I ever thought. Lots of great tips and people here.

BTW, since my original bridge stripped out. I now loosen the tension on my strings considerably whenever I adjust the bridge height. It just makes good sense.

I would use caution if going to a larger diameter screw. If the larger screw has a more course thread pitch then there would not be enough thread engagement in the bridge. If I were to fix it I would make a repair insert/bushing and stay with the same screw size. This would require a lathe.

I believe from prior discussion on going from the six saddle bridge to the twelve you also need to change to a different base plate for it. This shifts the bridge to the right position. I would call customer service at RIC and ask about this.

Welcome Richard and Kris.

Kevin, Kris, Gary, Ken ---- I appreciate everyone's input and commentary on this subject. While I do not wish Bridge replacement on anybody, it is somewhat comforting to know that others have experienced similar problems.

I have been doing more reading up on this site and Ric's own site --- and I am more confused than ever on the decision of 6-saddle or 12-saddle Bridge ... since I am going to go the route of replacement. Before I make that decision, I am going to try and visit a luthier who knows something about Rics and discuss with him.

Also thanks for those welcoming remarks.
Best Wishes - Rich

A further update to those interested in this thread. Over the last several weeks,I have been doing a lot of investigation into the subject of 12-saddle Bridges and have had several in-depth exchanges with Mark Arnquist and studied his work on the modified 12-string Nut and these other aspects pertaining to Ric 12 strings. Based on many views seen on this forum and discussing with others, I have ordered a 12-saddle Bridge and I'm having Mark Arnquist install the 12-saddle and change the Nut for his wider-spaced version and his other aspects of "tuning up" a Ric 12 string. When I get it back and test it out, I will post a further note with reviews of the new Bridge, Nut, etc. Regards Rich

The other thing I'll mention is that in my case, it was the bridge body that stripped out, not the screw threads. That's why I got a now bridge. Has it just been the screw that stripped, I could have gotten it out, and simply used a new screw.

In either case, I'm convinced that trying to raise the height of the bridge with the guitar in tune is what caused the problem.

- Kris

Kris --- I am sure, in hindsight, that you are correct about making the Bridge adjustments with the strings tension in place, is what caused the problem, even though I was trying to lower the Bridge to get better action. Note that my problem was two-fold. On one screw the threads in the chrome plate stripped and this screw just turns in place but goes nowhere and the second screw actually snapped, with the body of the screw in the chrome plate itself. Anyway, a lesson learned and hopefully others can avoid these problems by reading this Forum before using any tools on their Rics. Regards Rich

I've had about eight Rickenbackers, four of which have been twelve-strings, and never seen this problem until this week. I purchased a used 660/12 (made in 2005) and when I went to change strings and adjust the bridge height one of the screw holes in the 12-saddle bridge was stripped and the other three height adjustment holes were loose. I got out a couple of my spare bridges and tried swapping screws but every one of them fit the same way and the screws from this bridge were tight in the other 6-saddle bridge plates. It almost seems as if the holes were all drilled slightly oversized from the start before they were threaded.

The other thing that I noticed is that one of the screws holding the bridge mounting plate to the guitar body was missing and it doesn't appear to have ever had a screw installed. There are no signs of a screw head scratch in the chrome of the plate and the wood doesn't seem to be threaded, either.

I've never run across this on any other Rick I've owned, new or old. I wonder if there was a short period at the factory where they had a problem with an employee or two.