12 String Intonation

[markthemd]

The width of the neck on the bass is what you want to alter ...correct?

The 12 string is narrow enough and I see no way to make it smaller .I have been of the opinion, since I first encountered the 360-12 ,that the neck should be wider.

To change the width of the neck would be a huge task.As they are really the whole of the instrument (as the neck runs through the body) .

What model do you have ? If it is a 4003/4001 ...forget it.

If you have a dot neck with no binding on the neck ,it could be done .

Are you looking for a Fender Jazz Bass width? or is something in between more to your liking?

could you come up with an approximation of actual width?Then an answer could be given.

At the moment there is NO custom shop at Rickenbacker,and to the best of my knowledge ,no plans for one.

[cedbenson]

Last year I bought a 2011 360 12 string and had the 12-piece saddle replacement done as soon as I got the guitar while I was having a 3rd (middle) pickup installed. When I got the guitar back it sounded terrible. I couldn't keep it in tune for more than 15 minutes and it was a total hassle to play (even after the strings had a chance to stretch out). After about a year of disappointment (I hardly played it) I suddenly noticed it was staying in tune much better and moreover, was sounding a lot better. I then realized that when you buy a new Rickenbacker 12, or any highly crafted guitar, it takes about a year at least for the woods and the glue to set properly and after that year of disappointment I found my guitar sounded 100 times better than when first purchased. I run D'Addarios but I'd really like to get some Rickenbacker strings, which seem somewhat hard to get even here in the Los Angeles area so I'll order from the factory. I plan on checking the guitars intonation now that it stays in tune.

After I checked the intonation it was perfect. I have no idea what the guitar shop did but by the sounds of it whatever it was, it was great. I also advise anyone who plans on adding an additional pickup, or for that matter any electrical work, to download a schematic of the wiring which is available on the official Rickenbacker.com website.

[jimk]

I never cease to be interested and fascinated by other 12 string players' experiences.
JimK

[Folkie]

Thanks, Edward, for resurrecting this thread. I'd never seen it before, and I found it fascinating. One thing to consider (and I believe Todd Bradshaw addressed this in a previous thread) is that sometimes what seem to be intonation problems stem from a player's fretting technique. Specifically, sometimes a player inadvertently applies too much finger pressure to the low E-pair, and this, in effect, bends the string pair out of tune. I thought I was having intonation issues with my 330/12, but it turned out that whenever I played an open G chord, I was applying too much pressure on the root with my fretting finger. Once I used a lighter touch, the problem went away.

One other relevant thing to mention: I've had TI Flats on my 360/12 for the entire year and a half that I've owned it, and have had no intonation issues whatsoever. But, because I was having my guitar modded, and I knew I would need to order up and notch a new bridge, I decided on a 12-saddle bridge. I have a pretty good ear, and I can hear no substantial difference in tone between the 6 and 12-saddle bridges. I would go so far as to say that that Ric should consider making the 12-saddle bridge stock (but I'm sure that would raise the hackles of some on this forum).

Robert

[admin]

Thanks for your interesting observations guys. I have had better luck with the 12 saddle bridge when it comes to intonation.

A number of experienced players have told me that they preferred the tone of the six saddle bridge and that the intonation was adequate. Certainly many classic recordings have been made using the six saddle bridge.

The great news about these two bridges is that we have a choice.

[doctorwho]

Peter, is the (11 years + 16 days) between posts above a new record?

[admin]

To my knowledge it is Gary. We try not to throw anything Rickenbacker out here. It is also a reminder that the search function does work.

[cedbenson]

If you have the option of getting the intonation closer then why not? It’s not that expensive. I can always put the 6-saddle back on but I'm happy with it now using the 12-saddle. I'll reiterate that when I checked the intonality by first tuning to the 12th fret harmonic and then placing my finger on the twelfth fret and seeing if it was in tune between there and the bridge, it was right on (be sure to use an accurate tuner). As we all know, the distance from the nut to the 12th fret should equal the distance from the 12th fret and the bridge and in light of that observation the change would seem miniscule but I wanted that option.

[admin]

I agree, the more tools that we have for intonation the better. There is nothing more unsettling then playing out of tune.

[manta]

4-Yes the truss rod does play a factor in setting your intonation

This thread got off on quite a few tangents. This point at the start of the thread was never addressed.

Can someone here elaborate a bit more on how and when to look for truss adjustment when dealing with intonation problems, especially regarding setting up a 12 string.

Thanks in advance.

Manta

[johnhall]

As we all know, the distance from the nut to the 12th fret should equal the distance from the 12th fret and the bridge and in light of that observation the change would seem miniscule but I wanted that option.

This is the theoretical physics of the situation, however, you'd be quite unhappy with a guitar actually set up that way, as it does not take into consideration the down and side pressures exerted by fretting which varies greatly depending on string diameter and type.

You also have to consider that when you fret any string pair, all of the adjustments you made with an open string just went out the window.

[Ric5150]

My 360/12v64 displays the symptom described in the original post when my neck is over-bowed (I.e. every fall in Chicagoland). Playing a G chord sounds terrible. In my case, I noted that if I fretted the chord very lightly, it sounded almost OK. With too much relief, you end up bending the string in fretting it, pulling it high. (Thats my working theory, anyway - i dont mess around with physics on my own time much these days. ). Straightening out the neck a little pulls it right back in. Thought it was odd that intonation could be impacted so much with little to no perceived degradation in playability, but this one definitely moves out quickly. Happens with RIC or TI strings.

I don't blame the guitar or the strings. I just happen to live in a ridiculous habitat that requires owning humidifiers and dehumidifiers and tweaking all of my guitars on a pretty regular basis.

[doctorwho]

... You also have to consider that when you fret any string pair, all of the adjustments you made with an open string just went out the window.

Amen to that. When I was setting up the 620/12 TUR that I have posted for sale, I found near-perfect intonation at the 12th fret, but a couple of pairs sounded off when fretted at the 2nd and third fret. So I tweaked the tuning to sweeten those at those frets,n ow it sounds fine.

[johnhall]

Amen to that. When I was setting up the 620/12 TUR that I have posted for sale, I found near-perfect intonation at the 12th fret, but a couple of pairs sounded off when fretted at the 2nd and third fret. So I tweaked the tuning to sweeten those at those frets,n ow it sounds fine.

It's ALWAYS a compromise and more of an art than a science. I actually intonate my basses in several different ways to make each one more suitable for certain songs. U2's "Where the Streets have No Name", for example, needs a bass with intonation setting to favor the high fretted notes if you want it to sound just right. Same principle applies to 12-stringers, although you're only likely to have one of those at a gig, requiring a larger set of compromises. But it depends on the music.

[manta]

So if I suspect my intonation is off, possibly due to a recent truss adjustment on my 12-string... do the forum folks here recommend I change strings first, adjust the bridge first or back off on the truss adjustment a hair? Or a combination of all three?