Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I have just bought a 360/12V64 that I am in love with.

I have one problem and that is the intonation. I have removed the bridge springs on the 3 low strings (E-A-D) and that seems to help but when I set the intonation on the 12th fret and I play an open G chord the low G note from the E string is quite sharp. Actually as I move up the neck on the low E string, each note (F-F#-G-G# and so on) is sharp. Could this be fixed by a trus rod adjustment?

It was also suggested by the shop owner where I purchased this used guitar, that I buy a 12 saddle bridge from Rickenbacker. Will that help and will it fit without any modification to the instrument (can I replace it myself). Were can I get a 12 saddle bridge?

I wil go out on a limb and tell you to re-install the springs .

Then after getting a new 12 saddle bridge from Rickenbacker ,call /email the sales dept .anyone there can help you .

The bridge nedds to be moved to allow the saddles to sit in the center of the bridge and give you maximum travel for any gauge / brand of string that you might use.

Also ...the spacing on the strings at the saddle is .085 to .090 and using a dial caliper is the only way to do this with any accurracy.This laying out of the saddles should be done -OFF the guitar and then the plate removed and the holes filled with a round tooth pick.

I put a piece of tape on the face of the guitar (this is so I can trace around the outside of the plate .

The plate also needs to have a marking as to which side is the bass and which is the treble side .I use a Dremel to etch this into the bottom side.The hole layout is not exactly mirrored image sometimes and to be on the safe side (especially with older instruments) I find this etching to be incredibly usefull and so do the people that work on it after me.

Then to install the bridge ...that comes after you get the unit .Let me know and I'll post more info for you .

Let me see if I understand:

1) It is better to have the springs in because of ease of forward adjustability?
2) 12 saddle bridge should take care of this intonation problem if it is reset. Why does the factory not set these correctly?
3) Truss rod adjustment is not a factor in this problem.

I have a friend that owns 2 Rick 12s and one is the same model as mine. He did not want to make more holes in the body of his guitar in order to move the bridge, so he moved he nut away from the fingerboard about 1/16 to 1/8 and he says this accomplished the same task without much pain to the instrument. What do you think of that solution. I am considering it. Will it cause any problems. It did not seem to on my friend's guitar.

If the springs are there...

1-it still is stock

2- the saddles are centered on the bridge chassis

3-the intonation can be set for ANY gauge of string or brand

4-Yes the truss rod does play a factor in setting your intonation

Moving the nut away from the neck only changes the intonation at the first fret.I have a 1956 Gretsch 6120 that I have had since 1978.To intonate the G string and get the G sharp to be a G sharp I used an old banjo trick .I had to move the slot away from the neck about .030 ,then it would play in tune .Plus setting the bridge ...I got the whole neck.

If you had a tuner that could divide a note into 100 parts and you could vary the amount ,there by knowing how far off the note is ,then you would see that moving the whole nut IS WRONG!!!!

The bridge is off by about 3/32" .If you plug the holes under the plate and do this ,then install the new 12 saddle bridge You will also find that the bridge that was on it in the first place may not have been perfectly centered.

I just did this operation for Greg Simmons who drove to Seattle from Edmonton ,Alberta Canada just to have his 12 string set up and a new 12 saddle bridge installed .

Greg if you are out there....care to comment?

You betcha Mark;

I'm not a real handy guy when it comes to setup etc., so Mark was the man for the job! The bridge on my 360/12 CW - an otherwise wonderful guitar BTW - was definitely not installed (positionally) correctly at the factory - this is not an opinion, the math/physics/measurements of it all bore this out factually - Mark, you may have digital pics of this in fact - I don't remember.

With the bridge correctly positioned & reinstalled, a 12-string saddle installed and the guitar properly intonated, there was a definite before/after improvement happening, to say the least.

Like I said in another post, a beautiful guitar became a properly set up, intonated, stay-in-tune (within reason), beautiful guitar

Yes I do have photos

Thanks so much for the information. I thought about that "moving the nut" idea last night and it didn't sound right.

I will take your advice and get the 12 saddle bridge and make the change. I will need your help describing how to get the new bridge installed correctly. It is possible that mine is not centered.

I did replace the springs on my bridge this morning and I found out first hand how the bridge is set up. My first question was this:

Why doesn't Rickenbacker or someone, aftermarket a plate with offset holes so you don't have to re-drill the guitar? Is there such a thing available? Maybe this has to do with your above comment about "properly centered". What do you think about this idea?

Lastly, I would definitely come see you if I was in Seattle but I'm in upstate NY (Saratoga Springs). I prefer to have the right person for any given job and you seem to know Ricks. I do have a local shop that does other guitar work for me but they rarely have Rickenbackers and I just don't trust anyone drilling this new instrument. I would rather do it myself unless you know of someone in the Albany, NY area.

Thanks again and I look forward to your response.

I can walk you thru this .Give Peter your email and I'll send you some photo's too...

But we can start here.

Why is this .....??????Don't ask me ,i don't run the plant .I just deal with people who come to me and ask the same question over and over again.

Start where?

I did find one of your older postings called "Rickenbacker bridge and saddle screws". this did explain moving an existing bridge but did not explain how to set up a new bridge from the factory.

Thanks

The bridge does not have to be relocated if you use the factory string set or equivalent. As I've stated many times before, strings which are uniform in diameter from one end of the string to the other, such as is achieved when strings are secondarily compressed in manufacture, can be intonated perfectly every time.

It's ludicrous to think that we wouldn't simply place the bridge differently if it in fact was in the "wrong" position. As they are supplied now, the guitars can be much more precisely intonated (when using the factory spec strings) than would be possible if the bridge was placed differently.

I find it very annoying that this misinformation keeps reappearing, so I think I have a simple solution for future production to stop this once and for all.

I have a 620-12 that I love, but it would not intonate properly. I've used nothing but Ric strings on it. Every set-up man here in Nashville I've talked to about it that had worked on Rick 12's said the same thing, about the bridge needing to be moved. Once I had that done, everything was fine. One other thing I was told was to get the 12-saddle bridge, which I did. I noticed a difference in sound between it and the 6-saddle bridge, but not enough to want to go back to an out-of-tune guitar.

It seems to me that there are two possible approaches in addressing the intonation of Rickenbacker guitars or any guitar for that manner.

The first, easiest and most straight forward is to use the same string type that was used to intonate the instrument at the time it was crafted at the factory. In the factory setup, by definition, the bridge placement is exaclty where it should be as intonation is achieved. My first hand experience is that I have always been able to intonate my Rickenbackers and those of friends when we use the Rickenbacker strings or strings that are of the same gauge. In addressing Jeffrey's situation above, a 12 string saddle with the Rickenbacker strings may have done the trick in the beginning, although I am unclear from his discussion whether he had the bridge moved before or after he installed the 12 string bridge. So the easiest solution is to use the Rickenbacker strings.

The second approach, for those using strings other than Rickenbacker, is to move the location of the bridge. This is a more difficult venture and requires an experienced guitar technician to set it right. While a personal string preference may be the motivation for this approach it may also be done because Rickenbacker strings are not readily available in a particular area.

I have chosen the first approach and simply plan ahead and buy Rickenbacker strings. Fortunately, I love the feel and sound of these strings. For others, the second approach may be necessary. With few exceptions, we all make adjustments and modifications to our instruments based on our preference for look, sound and playability and even the climate where we live.

In my way of thinking, both of these roads lead to the same place although the journey taken may be different. I feel the most important thing in the end is that we appreciate that the trip, although different for each person, is an equally enjoyable and meaningful one.

Thanks for your reply, Peter! I already had the 12-string saddle installed, but I still could not get proper intonation on my low E string, the saddle being back as far as it could go. I played it for a while like that, but eventually realized that I would have to move the bridge. When I took it in, my set-up guy noticed something odd when he took the bridge plate off. There were ANOTHER set of holes south of the ones the plate was screwed into. He put the plate in the more southern set of holes, replaced the saddle, put new (Ric) strings on, and intonated it. This time the saddles were centered more towards the middle of the bridge, with plenty of travel room. It was as good as it gets, I'm here to tell you! With all due respect to Mr. Hall, it took more than just new factory strings. I love Rick 12's, but there seems to be a problem here that needs to be fixed.

Sorry to open this can of worms but it seems that I am not the only one with intonation problems on the low "E" string and its octave counterpart.

I am going to purchase a 12 saddle bridge and set it up in the same holes as my stock 6 saddle bridge and see what happens. I will be ordering Rick strings so that should not be in question. I assume that I should leave the springs in place.

I will get back to you and let you know how it turns out.

I will still need to get your procedures on preparing the 12 saddle bridge for the guitar.

Thanks again for the forum. It is excellent and very informative and only increases my appreciation for Rickenbacker guitars.