Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I was wondering if any 4000 series bass users had used the Tech 21 SansAmp RBI or other similar preamps such as the SansAmp PSA-1, POD Pro Modeler, etc., with their RIC basses. Since I had a powerful B&K stereo power amp of high quality gathering dust, and the bass amp tone is generated by the preamp, it would be like owning a bunch of famous bass amp heads as long as the speaker cabinet I run the amp/preamp combo through was fairly neutral. I talked to customer support at Tech 21 and ordered a SansAmp RBI. The customer rep said he knew of one guy running through expensive McIntosh audiophile amps. The cleaner the better, as it will not color the emulated output of the SansAmp RBI. The analog SansAmp technology supposedly preserves the character of the instrument being amplified and adds no digital artifacts. The customer rep at Tech 21 was clear on the point that their preamps emulate rather than digitally model the sound of the target amp. The reviews on Harmony Central were among the most positive I had ever seen on any kind of amp gear. The best part is that you can get a preamp that emulates a Bassman, SVT, and a lot of other rigs for only $300. You only need to carry a 5 pound preamp and an interconnect cable if you play through a house PA system or recording console. I already own audiophile speakers that put out lower bass than most pro bass cabinets, and they are more than loud enough for home use. Heck, I measured the SPL of my newly modified AVT20/Eminence bass practice rig, and it put out 114dB on the open E string at output clipping on a puny 20 watts of rated power. It should be loud enough for experimenting with the SansAmp RBI. I was already getting decent bass tone out of it before ordering the preamp, but if I can get a close aproximation of SVT tone out of a little practice amp, I will be thrilled.

I know guys who have spent more money just on cables.

I use the line 6 pod ... it can make a good amp great and a below average amp good ...

You can dial in distortion and effects ... pretty cool

it is not easy to learn and the stock patches aren't too useful ... and there are a few quirks ...

but I have 4 preset patches that sound good in just about any amp and with just about any bass ..

I have not played through a sans amp but I have a friend who has one and he likes it ...

I like the line 6 bass pod a lot and would not play without it ...

Phil,
I have the SansAmp Bass DI and it works very well at approximating the SVT sound. I have an SVT (that I need to sell) so I never tried it through an amp or P.A. . I did play through one of the RBIs at the store and was very impressed with it, the mid control is a plus.

There are a few guys who post here that have them I think. There was a thread on the RBI sometime ago.

Jeff,
Does the bass pod have the same problem the guitar pods and Johnsons have where you change a patch and the output volume changes? I know of at least three guitarists who quit using them live for that reason. One good friend of mine put in a lot of time trying to normalize the patch volumes but in the end gave up.

The POD is digital, I believe, and that is a negative for me. I do know that you can blend the effected and uneffected outputs on the SansAmp RBI in order to get a sound from full effected to uneffected. That was a plus for me. You can also vary the output between a PA and the onstage amp you are using. Never got that deep into checking out the POD, but the style is wrong with my amp. I need front controls. Besides, the RBI has rackmount handles that kind of match my B&K handles, so they look like mates. The RBI and B&K only weigh 43 pounds together and put out 600 clean watts into 4 ohms. I'm going to use Eminence B102 speakers in any cabinet I get so I don't have to worry about a horn for the highs. They have one of the flattest and most extended responses of any guitar speaker I have ever seen, while maintaining 97dB efficiency. Too "Hi Fi" sounding for most electric lead guitar applications without an effect pedal, but great for bass. The POD Pro Modeler was around $600 and out of the question. I heard the SansAmp PSA-1 had problems with distortion at very low levels. I suspect a Mesa Triaxis costs like the dickens and is too lead guitar oriented, as well as too heavy distortion oriented. It had too many glowing multicolored lights as well. It might cause a flashback, hypnotism, or something on stage.

You don't like the flashing lights then? lol...
Other than the SansAmp bass DI and RBI I really don't know of anything else that is true analog and does emulation. Maybe there is, I dont know.

I'm not familiar with the Mesa Triaxis. I have messed around a little with the bass pod and it does have some nice sounds.

Robert ... you have to be careful with any processor ... Digitech, Johnson, Line6 etc....

I set up 4 patches that give me all the sounds I need ... They are very close in volume ... each patch will produce move volume in certain frequencies and less volume in others ... the trick is to not have a jump in volume ...

Also the trick is to make a patch that cuts through the mix ... the obvious tendency is to overdrive too much and get too much distortion ... this sound great with headphones and at low volumes but it won't cut through ... this is true for guitar and bass ... between my pod and my amp I try to get settings that make it punch through .... I need to have a good bottom, mid punch and treble bite ... but no rumble and not too jangley ...

I have both a SansAmp RBI and a Digitech tube equipped RP-14d,which are run through a rather tame 100 watt Carvin combo. My observations are as follows:
1. I am after a grainy, trebly sound a la Dave Meros. I am able to get very close with the RP-14d, although it took about six weeks to find the sound, during which time I actually gave up and ordered the RBI. The RP-14d is not intuitive and can sound digital when used with a guitar (it is a guitar processor), but the sound I am after for my 4001 and 4003 is in there. It also has a zillion effects and amp simulators, the vast majority of which are wasted on me, and a noise gate, which is vital.
2. I bought the RBI on the strength of the Harmony Central reviews and because Tech 21's customer service people were so nice and helpful that I had to buy something. It is very easy to use and really seems to increase the volume of my Carvin. I've had it for about three months and haven't yet been able to find a sound that I like quite as well as the Digitech; the treble can be kind of harsh and noisy, so I use the "presence" control instead, which may tend to make the sound sort of "compressed". Also, I thought it was kind of expensive for a single effect device. I think that it will sound better through a less "sucky" amp setup, however, so I'm going to keep playing with it and save up for a b-2r.

The ampeg b2r is a really good bass head ... I got 2 of them ... they are worth the money ...

I use my SABDDI with my 4001 through a GK RB400 and a 1x15 cabinet from time to time. Absolutely no complaints.

My understanding after talking to customer service at Tech 21 is that you will get the most ACCURATE emulation when running through a clean amp with extended frequency response (like a recording console would offer). The emulation is in the RBI, and any other distortion is added to the RBI emulation distortion. Hence, SVT emulation run through an SVT would give you an SVT + SVT sound; through an Acoustic 370 would be an SVT + 370 sound; through a very clean PA system would be simply the SVT emulation. That is why he mentioned the McIntosh high end amplifier setup used by one customer. But my advice is to go to eBay and get a used B&K stereo or mono amp with rackmount handles for easy carrying for $200 to $500 depending on the model, condition, and age. The EX442 is true dual mono in a single chassis and is a step above my stereo ST-202+. An advantage if you play through both channels at once due to the dual toroidal power transformers. The M200 is a monoblock that can take 2 ohm loads in easy stride due to its five pairs of output transistors. There is not a better audiophile amp made by anybody for the money, and they seem bulletproof. Would also make a great PA amp.

www.audioreview.com has reviews on B&K amps. There are always some for sale at a decent price on eBay. Breakdowns are almost nonexistent on B&K amps. Mine has never broken in 12 years of constant service, and still looks in mint condition. It's kicking out some Aerosmith right now. I reviewed the ST-202+ on AudioReview. A clean amp is a clean amp is a clean amp. Forget about what it was designed for and just use it. I know one audiophile that has a 300 watt MB Electronics industrial tube amp that was made for things like shaking airplane wings at Boeing. They could afford to put in top quality components because the end users were needing something that put out full power for months on end with no breakdowns.

I also owned a Hafler DH-220 for a while. Good amp, but the B&K amps are definitely a step up, although the prices on eBay are about the same. An Adcom is OK if somebody dies and wills it to you. Sell it and get a B&K ASAP.

I now run an Ampeg SVP Pro preamp through a Boss octave divider>bass synthesizer>bass chorus>digital delay and then into a Rickenbacker RA600 stereo 300 watt per side power amp into a pair of custom 2x12 Thiele enclosures loaded with Electo-Voice EVM 12L's with upgraded 400 watt voice coils. During rehearsal I run just one side at about 1/3 volume. I can't wait for my first gig with this setup so I can open it up! The sound so far is incredibly articulate and a bit like Geddy Lee's sound in the 80's. My main bass is a '76 3000 with a 4004 pickup in it.

I use a SansAmp Bass Driver DI into an Ampeg B100R Rocket Bass combo. The amp has a peak input light which helps ensure that any overdrive is coming from the SansAmp. The SansAmp setting I use is similar to the "SVT" setting in the manual. I play a 4001CSLH, with a 4003LH as backup.

I have been using an RBI for about six months now. I love it. I play both 1975 4001 and 1990 4003 through it .. and both sound great.. with just a minor adjust of level to make up for the lower output of the 4001. I run the RBI into a boss bass eq to further trim the sound and then into a Crown ce1000 which is an amp that does not colour or modify the sound. It is nice to get a fairly close to tube sound without the volume needed to achieve it as one would through a good old tube amp. I run this system into a 4x10 Ampeg cab... also with a few adjustments to the RBI, my cheapo 6 string guitar sounds great through it with a little delay and overdrive pedal... the RBI overdrive does not work well with regular guitar... but it's nice to have a a bass rig fit for stage and guitar setup in the same for home writing etc.

Another part of this.. since last fall perhaps, I have been doing some bass-work in a studio with the SansAmp DI. With both basses (above) I get a great tone through that. However, now after getting the RBI .. I really like the (all important) mid control of the RBI over the DI. Glad I got the RBI. Also from above.. I meant the RBI -drive- does not work well with regular guitar.. not -overdrive-

Jay, I noticed you use a Crown power amp. Amps like that should give the best tone from the RBI, as the emulation is in the preamp and needs no further coloration. From what I gathered on the Harmony Central reviews, some people already have a bass amp rig and try to plug emulators in front of them and then end up disliking the tone from too much coloration. Emulators were made to be run through PA systems, home stereo systems, headphone amps, recording consoles, and anything else that is basically clean. I see that you were also after the tube bass amp sound without the need to crank something like an SVT up to full volume. One thing I learned on my first bass amp purchase was that big bass amps tend to sound like **** in a small room, never mind that they are too loud. Bass amps have usually been closer to hi-fi amps than guitar amps were. It comes as no surprise to me that the RBI doesn't work too well with regular guitars. It should if the right effects are placed in front of it, like a Tri-O.D. or Double Drive. Some guitarists from classic rock's past preferred bass amps over guitar amps as it gave them a cleaner, tighter tone to run their distortion effects through. The Traynor YBA 1 was one of those early tube bass amps that ended up being used by more guitarists then bassists. Guitar amps like the Hiwatt DR-100 that played loud and clean before distorting (due in large part to those wonderful Partridge output transformers that are so good that many of them ended up being salvaged from old Hiwatt amps and put into audiophile amp service) were likewise switched over to bass amp duties by many classic rock bassists. I think John Entwistle used one for a while.