Welcome Clem Dalton

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:08 am

I have just received word that one of the Managers of the Iron Door in the early 1960s will be joining us on the Iron Door Club Forum. Welcome Clem, and thanks for your willingness to field questions regarding the operation and "goings on" at the Club during the early days.

13_temple_street · Post by **13_temple_street** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:57 pm

Welcome Clem as you were friendly with most of the groups who performed at the club including The Searchers & The Beatles it would be interesting to have an insight as to what they were like off stage,also what type of clientele visited the club would you describe them as mainly Mods or Rockers.

bilko · Post by **bilko** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:59 am

Thanks for having me, as my Mum would say. The clientele at the Iron Door would be mostly Mods I suppose, though I must say I didn't think of them in those terms. Just part of our own gang really. People looking for a good time in a great atmosphere hoping to, not only enjoy performances, but to personally meet the best groups in the north west & also the occasional "Jazz Legend". The Iron Door was a club in the true sense of the word, and the groups would turn up to hang out there whether they had a booking or not. I always found the Searchers to be a rather troubled group. They were immensely talented, but always gave me the impression that they weren't satisfied with the recognition they received and ,let's face it, Les Ackerley wasn't exactly Brian Epstein, although they did have their chance with Eppy but that would go under the title of "Brian & the man from the Inland Revenue". There also seemed to the outsider, that there was a lot of inter-group bickering, I just got the feeling that they were not a happy group at that time but wow! when they were on stage few could better them.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:07 am

Welcome Bilko. Thanks for your detailed response. As a followup, did an obvious leader or frontman emerge on stage for the Searchers in the early days of Curtis, Pender, Jackson and McNally?

13_temple_street · Post by **13_temple_street** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:36 am

The lack of recognition given to the Searchers has been one of Liverpool's tradgedies,of coarse ,there were problems within the group which made them harder to deal with than the Beatles or Gerry and the Pacemakers,but their sound was terrific and influenced the whole West Coast Sound.
Chris Curtis was a big influence on the group,he was keen on the folk rock sound,captured brilliantly in What Have They Done to the Rain.Had they continued along that route they may well have extended their chart career by a couple of years at least.It would also have included them in the big American festival scene.
Mike Pender in his address at Chris Curtis's funeral talked about Chris Curtis persuading him to pack up his job and join the group full time.

bilko · Post by **bilko** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:04 am

As I remember, Chris was the definite focal point on stage. The others were a bit static. Chris was the showman but,if memory serves, Tony Jackson had a great stage presence & for some reason seemed rather imposing,possibly because of his build. I seem to remember him as physically larger than the others. Musically I found them to be the most polished of all the UK groups and they deserved far greater success & longevity than they achieved. Even more so in the USA.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:21 am

That sounds strange. I mean, i always considered them to be a unit, not a bunch of individuals (especially given many people may not even have known who were who). Little did i know...
And, of course, - Welcome, Clem.

13_temple_street · Post by **13_temple_street** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:24 am

Sheena I think it was because they were all individuals they split.The Big Three were of a simular disposition.

Clem I agree Chris Curtis was a great showman,stuck at the back behind his drums he managed to make his presence felt.
I think your analysis is spot on Tony Jackson & Mickey Pender were the one's with the control of the microphone which tended to give them a bigger stage presence.
John McNally was always the quiet one he said very little on or of stage, a brilliant musician ends up with the Searchers name.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:38 am

I think there is no doubt Curtis and Jackson did not get on, also sad how things turned out between Pender and mcNally who basically have not spoken to each other for 21 years.

Interestingly Geoff I believe you promoted a recent show where Mike Pender's Searchers were top of the bil but less said the better perhaps Geoff.

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:54 am

Roy: I believe it is safe to say that the Iron Door Club was to the Searchers as the Cavern was to the Beatles. Mike Pender has commented on the good feeling that the group had at the Iron Door while performing there in the early days.

Regardless of what happened between Jackson and Curtis or Pender and McNally, I believe that it is safe to say the The Searchers really got their start at the Iron Door Club.

The more recent celebration of the Iron Door Club saw a number of performers from the early days and in the balance it is my understanding that the majority of those who attended were in good form.

As they say nothing is perfect and, for some, nostalgia is not what it used to be.

I note that Geoff is from Yorkshire and I am sure as a Yorkshireman yourself Roy, you will be able to compare notes of the 1ate 50s and early 1960s. You may both have seen the same show or two at the Batley.

13_temple_street · Post by **13_temple_street** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:24 pm

Hi Roy,
At Chris Curtis's funeral John McNally & Mickey Pender were in attendance,Mike Pender went over to McNally to shake his hand,McNally brushed him aside & allegedly said there's been too much water under the bridge, we both know what that means.
I was disappointed with Mike Penders Searchers when we booked them at the Olympia I wrote and told him my views on his groups performance.
I did see McNally's Searchers at The Liverpool Empire recently and they were not much better.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:31 pm

Interesting story there, Geoff... why am i not surprised?..
(i don't get it. Simply don't get it. 25 years and then - crash! boom! bang! "I-don't-know-you". Oh well. Life is a strange thing, anyway)

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:48 am

Most interesting discussion here with regard to The Searchers and the Iron Door Club. I know Roy is a die-hard fan who has followed them closely over the years. Geoff has seen them beginning in their very early days.

At least two perceptions tend to emerge when talking about the performance of groups whose performances span decades. To begin, as the group members age their performance begins to drop off physically and emotionally. Taking nothing away from The Searchers today, it is difficult to take the stage with the same enthusiasm each gig as they did in the early days. Hence reviews tend to be more critical. In addition, there is a perception that things in the early days were "always better" and the events of today pale by comparison.

To my way of thinking, that we are talking about The Searchers and the Iron Door Club 45 years hence is a tribute to the group and the establishment that played a central role in their success at many levels.

There are very few clubs that can claim to have had the likes of The Beatles, The Searchers, Cilla Black and so many others cut their teeth locally and then move on to far greater fame. It is a pity that the premises had to go.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:57 am

Sheena: To forgive and forget is a difficult thing. As our talents begin to dwindle and we perceive others standing in the way of our success, unpredictable events emerge.

As we have learned from Clem and others who watched The Searchers in the beginning, the group seemed to lack a cohesiveness and sense of oneness that it needed to emerge intact when faced with the stresses and strains of the music business.

From the outside looking in, in the end it would seem that no one came out the better for it musically.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:54 am

"Understanding means forgiving. But forgiving doesn't mean forgetting". Don't remember who said it.
But a strange coincidence, anyway: all those splits happened when the band was "on top" (more or less). Mean, Tony went away when they were in the charts; Chris left when things started going wrong but it wasn't as bad as later, anyway; and Mike left when the "nostalgia circuit" was on the rise. 70s are described as hardest times for the Searchers, but there were no changes in the lineup from 1969 to 1985.