650C with VP option not available

philco · Post by **philco** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:07 am

I wanted a wide neck Rick with the VP option, so I ordered the 650C w/VP in March and just now I am notified by Mike Parks that was just notified by RIC that it is "no can do" for now. If you had that version in mind, might as well forget it. Now I can say that not only did I wait several months for delivery of a Rickenbacker, but I also had to wait 4 months just to be notified I wasn't getting it at all.

Not to worry, the $200 refunded down payment will almost pay for my new OLP MM2 Music Man Stingray copy that plays, sounds, and looks great. The neck dimensions are very close to my 4004L, so it's a great alternative bass for 4004 owners at a giveaway price. AND NO WAITING!

longhouse · Post by **longhouse** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:08 am

Get the 650C with humbuckers and have your luthier swap the pickups. The money you make selling the samarium/cobalt magnet humbuckers on Ebay will more than cover the cost -and maybe installation of the Toasters.
Just a thought.
'course, the Ric humbuckers in my 650A/VB sound great.

bluedave · Post by **bluedave** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:09 pm

IIRC, Phil already has a 650D with humbuckers. I doubt the finish would make that much difference in the way they sound from one guitar to another (though some here might argue the point ad nauseam).

I seriously wonder why they wouldn't be able to do the VP option, though. Wooly, your idea reminds me of that movie Zoolander, where Ben Stiller's character can't turn left. "I'm not an ambiturner."

philco · Post by **philco** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 1:59 pm

I'll just buy a used 650C some day and make the pickup swapout myself. RIC isn't hurting for sales, so they don't care. Philco doesn't care much either. ONLY USED RICK's FOR ME FROM NOW ON! Let somebody else supply down payment and take the long waiting period. That thread on Talk To The Toneman section about economical Asian guitars has gotten me to thinking. Buy those cheap Asian guitars if they fill the bill and just upgrade them yourself if you want to. I can get a Seymour Duncan Music Man pickup upgrade with active electronics for about $200 and turn my $230 OLP MM2 into a bass that sounds as good as a Stingray and weighs quite a bit less. Other people have done it already. And what is the MAIN difference between the satin finish Canadian maple neck on my $230 MM2 and the oiled satin finish Canadian maple neck on my $675 650D, besides the price? Well, I didn't have to file any fret ends on the OLP MM2, and I have achieved an action almost as low as the one on the 650D in spite of the fact this is a 34" scale bass guitar. Until I get the sprung neck straightened out on my 4004L, the MM2 is the bass that is the easiest and most fun to play. If Musician's Friend or several other large retailers sold it to you, then you can send it back for IMMEDIATE exchange or refund if you get a less than perfect one. So if you like the Stingray sound and looks...........

I'm not about to take the humbuckers out of my 650D. I just wanted a different sound from a similar guitar. I like a similar feel, so I will get a cheap used 650C some day. The 650 series turned out to be a popular RIC model, so they will be all over eBay in a couple of years at cheap prices. Or maybe I will be buying OLP guitars at even cheaper prices and installing RIC toasters in them. There's a thought.

Really, the MM2 was a breeze to set up with a little wheel at the base of the neck that you stick a rod into and turn to set your neck relief. Bridge uses an Allen key. Both setup tools were included. And an 8' guitar cord as well as Ernie Ball Slinky roundwound strings. No pain in the derriere truss rod cover removal then hunting for a nut driver, or heaven forbid, neck removal as on an old Fender P-bass. It's also prettier than my old P-bass, besides being lighter and playing/sounding better. AND NO WAITING AND NO BS! Even Peavey is putting out a nice neck-thru-body imported bass with dual passive humbuckers, multi-section neck, sealed tuners, rosewood fretboard, and exotic Imbuya wood body wings for $399 thru Musician's Friend in the Grind BXP NTB model. AND NO WAITING! And it doesn't even have to sound one bit better than my MM2 to fully justify the price. The natural wood finish reminds me of the original 4004 Cheyenne basses, and it resembles the premium high end Cirrus basses in style.

newrider · Post by **newrider** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:33 am

Buy American.

philco · Post by **philco** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 2:05 pm

Hey Newrider, how would you like a nice American Fender '75 P-bass with an s-curve neck, crooked pickguard screws, off-center tilted pickups, action so high I needed a safety net when I played it, visible ripples in the body wood, and boat anchor weight? I had one of those already, before I learned that the new (at that time) Music Man Stingray basses were the REAL Leo Fender basses in production at that time. Many others have had similar experiences with American guitars. I might get a used G&L L2000 bass someday so that I can have a REAL Leo Fender modern bass at a bargain price.

Maybe Ernie Ball will take a lesson from OLP and make a lightweight basswood body version of their Stingray. I MIGHT buy one of those (used). Fender saw the light and made the new Japanese built Aerodyne Jazz Bass with a basswood body. One elite builder (Parker?) is saying that lighter weight basswood bodies actually improve the sustain and tone of guitars, ESPECIALLY IN THE BASS. My recent experience says he may be right. Basswood just isn't pretty, like alder, and needs a colored finish. Basswood is comparatively cheap and very easy to machine, and will end up in a lot of lower cost guitars in the future. I guess the foreign builders will have to introduce it on a widespread scale, as there is general prejudice against it in American built guitars. The young kids buying OLP's, Aerodynes and such are probably not as prejudiced. If I can lose the weight without losing the tone, and save a few bucks in the bargain, I'm all for it. OLP uses Elm in one of the naturally finished 5-string bass models, which is also a tonewood you rarely see in American instruments. So if you want something unique and dirt cheap...........

3 out of 4 guitars I currently own are American, but this Chinese OLP bass guitar will be sending a lot of makers scrambling to come up with a product that is competitive, including price. I hear the OLP guitars are just as good as this bass. Great way to learn before spending a big hunk on an American guitar.

I'm also keeping my eyes on the American built Peavey Cirrus basses on eBay right now. There's no denying they are good sounding and beautiful basses. AND AVAILABLE! RIC 4004 basses seem to be made from unobtainium.

lshaia · Post by **lshaia** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 3:05 am

"Unobtainium"? Well said, Philco.

I have had good luck generally with American instruments, but I guess I also have an instant gratification complex: if I save up, convince the wife, and pop for a new guitar, I'd like to have it within a reasonable period of time with a minimum of nonsense. Used Rics for me too.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:19 am

back to the begining: isn't the point of the 650 line to compete with the L.P.s ? That would be the reason for the pups as sold. I am considering one for a future purchase, and the specs are the reason. I'll have my toaster ric before that.

philco · Post by **philco** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:41 pm

The 650D is nothing like a Les Paul except for the fat neck. Current production models supposedly have a thinner neck. The RIC humbuckers are two short single coils placed end to end rather than two full length coils placed side by side. They maintain single coil sound but are overwound and hotter than a Strat pickup so they are not as thin sounding. The sound is closer to a Strat than a Les Paul in that it maintains a bright and clear sound rather than the sweet creamy sound of the Les Paul that some find a bit muddled. The 650D is a nice middle ground between the two sounds and by using the tone controls you can make it sound like a fattened up Strat or a leaned down Les Paul.

The 650D hardware is better than on a Highway 1 Strat even if a bit more expensive, and you have to buy an Epiphone Elite to get an LP guitar that is price and quality competitive with the 650C. You will get inlays and bindings that look good and do nothing for sound, but if looks are that important.........

A Gibson LP is simply overpriced for an old fashioned shortnecked guitar. 650 guitars are becoming more common on eBay and you can usually find a new one in stock somewhere.

I would buy something like a G&L (the real Leo Fender guitars that do not get proper respect and are relatively undervalued) before I bought either a Strat or Les Paul in place of a RIC 650. If Leo Fender himself said his old designs did not compare with what he later designed at G&L, why even bother with Fenders? Just read the owner reviews on Harmony Central. Where are Gibson's new designs that obsolete their old designs? The 650D is a unique design due to the patented pickups, while Fender and Gibson just keep serving up their admittedly rather good old stuff at too high a price for old stuff. Probably because it's still better than some of the newer stuff whose only real selling point is that it's newer and different.

eatswodo · Post by **eatswodo** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:58 pm

Philip said "The RIC humbuckers are two short single coils placed end to end rather than two full length coils placed side by side."

There was a thread earlier on this year, where someone had discovered humbuckers like this on his guitar. John Hall later confirmed that these were prototypes, and that the standard humbucker does indeed have side-by-side (skinny) coils.

I don't know how to 'quote' an earlier thread here, otherwise I'd give a pointer to it. If you search for 'humbuckers' as a subject in the Rickenbacker Guitars topic, it'll pop up right away.

dannyboy · Post by **dannyboy** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:25 pm

Philco,I don't want to argue with your obvious knowledge, but to my ears, my 650 is definitely sounding closer to a L.P or a SG. And I find the sound much deeper than what you can get from a Strat. Cheers

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:34 am

Not being able to get a new 650C with the vintage pick-ups at this time is really difficult to understand. Why is this the case?? Does this also apply to the 650D? You know, I can understand Rickenbacker having a sizable backlog of orders on instruments in general. But is there a sudden, unforseen shortage on guitar vintage pick-ups for some reason? I don't mean to imply any criticism towards Rickenbacker, but I don't get it on this one.

Kenny Howes: Is there a ready explanation for the (hopefully short-term) elimination of the VP option?

philco · Post by **philco** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:00 pm

The pickups on my 650D even sound brighter than the toasters on my dad's old solidbody Gretsch. I have not taken mine out to see if they are end-to-end or side-by-side configuration. Yes, the sound is fatter than a Strat, but I can't really get that mellow creamy sound that a Les Paul gets in general. Both Strats and Les Pauls have so many pickup options on the market that I don't really know all the tonal possibilities you can get with either one. I know what they sound like in general when in fairly stock form since they are the most common guitars in rock music, but the Strat is a tonal chameleon to begin with even before the owner starts modifying it. I have no intention of monkeying around with my 650D, as it sounds just fine and rather unique just the way it is. My Traynor amp is cleaner than a Marshall and I use Tung-Sol 5881 tubes that were common to some Fender amps, so that probably shoves the sound more toward the Fender camp than the Gibson camp. If I was using an old Marshall tube amp with EL34's, it might sound more like what we expect a Les Paul to sound like. I prefer a fatter Strat to a leaner Les Paul. My father said my 650D had a lean and clean sound in general. That is not how most people describe a Les Paul. My brother did not describe it as either Strat sounding or LP sounding, but he mainly wanted to see how radical he could get with it as he is from the Charvel/Washburn camp. In standard configuration, neither Strat nor Les Paul would really satisfy him, but he liked the 650D. The 650D seems to be the Sara Lee of guitars: Everybody doesn't like some guitar, but nobody doesn't like the 650D (when it comes to tone). I read where some people disliked the fat neck, but if the new production has thinner necks..........

kennyhowes · Post by **kennyhowes** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:17 pm

Actually, yes, there is a shortage of vintage pickups at the moment. We have even had to limit the ammount a dealer can buy at one time.

While one can never say never, I would hold off on requesting special-order-type options for the time being. There are an awful lot of standard orders which need to be filled first.

Believe me, I would love to be able to accept an order for a greenglo 340 slant-fret with one of each pickup, a Bigsby, a coil tap and black pickguards. I really would. We just have some buisness to take care of first.

Sit tight and keep those cards & letters coming!

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:15 pm

Believe me, I would love to be able to accept an order for a greenglo 340 slant-fret with one of each pickup, a Bigsby, a coil tap and black pickguards.

LOL!