Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Let me first say this about performance enhancing drugs: If I take a Viagra, a performance enhancing drug, and give my wife a night to remember, will she applaud the performance? Or question where it came from?

Now, was Babe Ruth given performance enhancing drugs? Well, when he showed up to the ballpark too hungover to play, did the team give him whatever, when ever to help him through the game? You bet. Now that was worse IMHO, as Ruth already had superior skills, and if an average player needed the same boost, or help, they probably sent him packing. How about Hank Aaron? The team moved the fences in for him. Is that performance enhancing?

No one will accuse Bonds of being a great guy, but a tremendous slugger, he is all of that.

Your wife, under the circumstances of the postulated scenario, would be right to question where 'it' came from...and whether you might get the idea to spread 'it' through the neighborhood...

You're right, of course Marc, about Ruth getting star treatment...but the logical question to ask is: why should we care anymore what humans can do? Shouldn't we be more excited about the inevitable day to come when we can watch robots play, doing things that human players could never dream of doing?

And BTW, to say that whatever 'hangover cure' that might have been administered to Ruth on Game Day is somehow worse than a decades-long program of self-administered shots of heavy-duty 'go-juice' to the groin is...well...inapt.


(There, I've said it...)

When I was reading the news yesterday, and saw that Aaron hit his 715th in April '74, I realized that to the month, I was the exact same age then as my son is now. I can remember clearly the excitement of Aaron's feat in '74, and how my friends and I applauded it and imitated it in our yards. My son and his friends do not share this excitement for Bonds, but rather think of him as a cheater, which saddens me more then anything. Of course, what they know comes from adults and the media, so maybe we're to blame as much as anybody, but I love to see true excitement, wonder and imagination in kids and it's too bad they aren't getting this opportunity to be excited about such a record being broken.

Barry is one of my favorite baseball players ... When Ted Williams played he was also disliked a lot ...

The "Babe" held the home run record for 30 something years and Hank held it for 33 years. However, Barry will hold it for just a short period of time, as I believe A-Rod will be the HR king before his career is finished.

That said, congratulations to Barry.

I get Dane's point regarding, at what point are we not watching humans. Here's the thing though, the objection to Bonds is that he had this competitive advantage, that the other players didn't have. While I believe that was the case with Ruth, and even guys like Mantle, steroids in todays game is much more rampant than we may imagine. Therefore, if say 75-80% of baseball was using them, the playing field was level. Still haven't see proof that the juice makes you hit the ball.

I believe very shortly that we are going to find out that steroids were(and probably are) very rampant throughout baseball. A man who was a former employee of the Mets was arrested, wiretapped etc. The names will come out, and we will be shocked to hear names of our heroes as they fall from grace in people's eyes.

Not sure if you guys remember but, there was controversy over a substance called "Andro" that McGwire used, which was later banned. Supposedly the Yankees had something similiar they drank like Kool-aid in their locker room in those years when they won 4 of 5 WS.

In the end, what may shock us is not who used steroids, but who didn't.

Moving the fences in is at least done in the open and affects every one. The Dodgers moved the fences in too recently. (Actually moving home plate up.)
Heck, the Dodgers played in the Coliseum for fours years and left field was only 250 feet!
[Side note - they should have stayed in Brooklyn those four years and built a new stadium in NYC.]

Bonds' so-called record is a sad joke done by a cheater. There is no way around that.

This writer has it exactly right:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=dw-756bonds080707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ObnFTpks1ZE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D7vNI6y5Zkw

Humans are steadily getting larger and stronger due to a variety of factors...some genetic, some medical and some environmental (better nutrition during childhood, for example). That being the case, moving the baseball fences in is more bizarre than any individual little boy who dreams of growing up big and strong faster than the other little boys. With basketball players regularly entering the game at around seven feet tall, would it make sense to lower the rim? This cheese is about creating higher scoring baseball games for a brainwashed, instant-gratification seeking public...the types of crowds who can't sit still for an entire 'soccer' match because there aren't enough goals being scored.

Anyone who understands baseball well knows that the game is about pitching, not hitting. A lot of 'exciting' runs is an indication of a ****** ball game...

Then there's this BS about a ball being worth millions of dollars because some pitcher let it get away from him...the real reason they're selling this stuff is because we're buyin' it.

Dane: I rarely agree with anything you say, but as long as topic is sports, we're on the same page!

One of the most notorious cheats in baseball history is a beloved hall of famer - Gaylord Perry.

Give Barry his day in the sun.

Thanks, Randy! Like they say, even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day...

(Just for the record, I'm usually on the comics page...)

I don't know if I would characterize Gaylord Perry as "beloved."

Man who prepare too much for game in dark, locked closet not deserve day in sun...

Whatever you do to get 'up for the game', let's see ya do it right there in the dugout, baby.

They didn't take Willis Reed backstage to shoot cortisone into his knees...