Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

My first introduction to instrumental guitar music was that of the surf groups. Naturally Dick Dale and The Ventures were part of that introduction. Only later, did I begin to realize the brilliance of The Shadows.

I have always found the arrangements of the surf groups to be edgier and somewhat harsh compared to the arrangements and style of The Shadows.

I don't mean to suggest that one style was preferable to the other, just that they are different. I found the Shadows guitar to be somewhat more mellow and the arrangements a bit more interesting than the Ventures, for example.

While I am not trying to start a battle of the bands, I would be interested in your perceptions regarding the differences in the surf groups compared to the Shadows.

The Shadows and the Ventures for that matter plus many other instrumental guitar based groups really were/are not surf bands in the strict sense. Dick Dale mostly plays in a very edgy not always melodic style..still my fave. The bands that followed in the 60's...Eddie and the Showmen, The Bel-Airs etc drew from the rapid double picking style that Dick has. Many groups would play double picked lines but they sounded different. The key is that Dick syncopates his string attack...it is NOT played in straight time...this gives his lines an edge. The Shadows are melodic and never stray far from the curl. In other words they stay close to the melody of the song. The Shadows music is great and other bands that stay melodic are as well. Dick's stuff is more primal. My views here are rather simplistic and there are many styles between the two extremes I did not touch on.

An insightful comparison George. With regard to the stylist difference "between the two extremes" the very good news is that you are welcomed back, when you have the time,to elaborate further.

I will come back with my view after some contemplation.............

I agree with Peter that the Shadows (and their clones at the time) set the standard for a slightly more polished type of instrumental music than can be heard from The Ventures and their clones. The latter seems more like coming straight out from their garages and just play without to much consideration about arrangements (but that's what rock and roll is all about, isn't it). The Shadows had from the beginning very elaborate arrangements indicating that not only the lead but also the other elements were carefully worked out (at least in the studio versions). But on the other hand gradually something got lost in the process, starting with the album Dance with the Shadows wich contained much material which were only adaptations from vocal standards (and later they started to adapt contemporary pop hits to instrumental versions, brilliantly - yes, but interesting - no). A brief revival with the album Guardian Angel which in my opinion contains their absolutely best work from a musicians opint of view. But their absolute high were the albums as "Marvin, Welch and Farrar" (featuring Brian Bennet on drums so I regard them as the Shadows). Unbelievable that these albums sold as bad as they did.

The Ventures, however ar more or less still going strong almost til this day I believe, even if they have never reached The Shadows' level of musicianship (an opinion, of course)

My feelings exactly Goran,though If I may be so bold as to correct one point.

On the first Marvin, Welch and Farrar drums were played by Clem Cattini (ex Tornados) Brian Bennett was on the follow up album Second Opinion but was only credited with percussion on Marvin and Farrar, Trevor Spencer played drums.

Bruce Welch did appear on one track on Marvin and Farrar, probably a left over from previous sessions.

Guardian Angel, great album, but did not sell.

OK, my mistake

MHO...The Shadows with their wide tonal variations and exquisite arrangements appeal to the psych and soul of the listener. Heavy surf aims a bit further down on the human body on a more hormonal/tribal level....both have their place no doubt...

George, you have certainly struck a chord here. There can be little doubt that the flow of hormones and the relationship with music is a fascinating study. I think it can be argued that the type of music that we listen to during adolescence leads to powerful imprinting and a lifelong preference.

I cannot tell you how many younger people that I have spoken to have developed a strong attraction to Misirlou associated with their movie interests. A song like Misirlou is likely to impact our physiology differently than one such as Shindig. The latter is surely more wholesome than the former.

It would be so interesting to interview the fans of Dick Dale and The Shadows with the view of seeing if the music was interpreted differently by their teenage audiences.

I think that there is something very appealing to many about the sound of surf music. I got into it in my early teen years, thanks to some exposure to Dick Dale. That exposure led me through a number of other groups from that era such as the Pyramids, the New Dimensions, the Centurions, the Sentinels, the Astronauts and many others. I have listened to this music with others in the car and around me, ranging from other 60's music enthusiasts to others who are strictly new punk/emo/rap types. All have been somewhat captivated, if not more so, by the sounds of the heavy pounding of toms, the crashing reverb, thumping bass, etc. I think that there is something so very primal and basic in the appeal of this music that it makes it accessible for many without making them self-conscious about it. Something far more polished such as the Shadows however, would appeal less (not to take anything away from them or the fans); I think that that may lie in the polish and arrangement. Also, the exposure of younger audiences to songs such as "Misirlou" through films like Pulp Fiction and song sampling by the Black Eyed Peas in their tune "Pump It" makes this a song with street cred for them. As a matter of fact, I worked a retail job about two years ago, where I would put my iPod on the store stereo and play my own music instead of the corporate junk. Part of that music that I would play would be surf music. When those songs would come on, co-workers and customers, (primarily teens) alike would take notice. I know that as someone who is little more than 5 years removed from teen years, I would have, and still do in some cases, found the instrumental groups decidedly sterile. I appreciate the music, and do so more all the time, but the surf music, especially Dick Dale, has always had a very special place in my musical heart.

What a great review Matthew. I quite agree that there is something very basic about the surf sound that brings us in touch with the elements.

The heart-beat tom, the wave-crashing cymbals, the cave-reverb, the mountain-echo and lightning fast thundering guitars are all reminders that nature provides life-altering experiences all around us.

That surf music makes more than its fair share of references to storms, waves and events that depart from the ordinary is surely no accident. Thanks for speaking from your musical heart.

I'm sure we all have vivid mental landscapes created by the music we have heard/hear. Lyrics paint a strong portrait, but of interest to me is how instrumental music leaves the palate more open to interpretation by the subject..ahhh I mean listener. Don't call it mood music for naught.

I've been a long time fan of The Shadows and surf music and still enjoy listening to the classics.

The Shadows were much more refined in their presentation where as surf band are generally a little more basic in their approach.

The surf classics such as Pipeline and Bombora still gets my heart pounding. Surf music has a wide emotional range and its easy for me to see a relaxed balmy day at the beach or recall that terrible feeling in your gut when the horizon disappears behind a wall of water. Maybe you have to have surfed to fully appreciate it.

Yep..."The Impact Zone" Plug intended. Most frightening one for me was at Trestles on a 12 ft+ day..lost my board and was lucky to make it back in alive!

Very well written pieces by all of you and perhaps one of the reasons Surf music with the odd one hit by artists never really took off in UK was the fact that Surf to vast majority in UK was a brand of washing powder.

I don't mean that in a disparaging way, simply that some of the emotions you all express would mean nothing to us over here, I'll stand corrected but is Pipeline not some surfing term, to us here in UK, it would have a totally different connotation.

I believe there is some limited surfing goes on now in UK in the South Western tip of the UK.

Here's one you may enjoy Pipeline featuring Hank Marvin and Duane Eddy.

Have to admit though as big a fan of Hank as I am, I prefer the original.


pipeline