The SVT-VR

bassman2k · Post by **bassman2k** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:38 pm

I'm looking into getting an amp that will last me a lifetime; something that will have timeless tone, value, and class. This will be the end all of my rig upgrades. I'm really set on 10 inch speakers, and I'd really like a tube head. This is leading me down the path of 810's, namely, ampeg. And of course the perfect match would be an SVT. It seems the consensus of today is that the 70's SVTs are way better than what's available. I'm wondering if it would be a worthy investment to go with the VR; it's apparently close to the 70's SVT, plus, I don't have to worry about having an expensive 30+ year old amp dying on me.

At this point I think I'm really looking for some wisdom, not necessarily tech talk. What kind of advice would you have for a young bassplayer with years of playing ahead of him?

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:21 pm

Find a good chiropractor.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:17 pm

I would not be shy on getting an older SVT but then I know electronics. They were built like a tank. Once old capacitors are replaced, pots and switches cleaned, and tubes blessed as good it should be very reliable. Bob Young has stated the VR has a different sound from the older SVTs. Tube differences and probably the transformers make the difference, I would think.

Consider the rack-mountable SVT-2 or 2 Pro models - the SVT-2 is older (late 80s-early 90s) and is very similiar to the old SVT. The 2 Pro is newer design with a graphic eq. and sounds very good - I have one. Used they go for 700-$950 and you can put the difference into escrow for the chiropractor - they weigh about 80 lbs! I got a roll-around rack to move it.

bassman2k · Post by **bassman2k** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:46 pm

I've always heard the SVT-2 (Pro) was the meanest sounding of the SVTs. I was afraid that the SVT-2 Pro would have the same verdict as the modern SVT-CL, that it would lack in low-end clarity and just lack the general oomf of the original SVTs.

The reason I'm looking at the VR is because I hear it is as close as one gets to the original without it being original. As far as an original goes, if I clean it up by changing the caps and tubes, wouldn't it basically be a new SVT in an old chassis? I love doing stuff like this--I'm an electrical engineer, so it's what I do. But I'd rather it not be burdensome.

I find it strange to consider having an amp that's older than me; by the time I'm in my 50's, handing down my rig to my children, it would be 60-70 years old!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:51 am

Old SVT's are built like tanks, like John said, change the electrolytics, go through it and you'll have an amp that you can hand down to your kids, mine are 30 and 31 years old and both play and sound great. I have no fear gigging with these. There is no comparison with these to anything being built now except in weight. I did change one midrange pot that's it. They are heavy as Jeffrey points out but you'll probably never have to or want to buy another amp. You can get a good one cheaper than the new ones also. The tubes aren't even the same in the new ones, I don't know how they can claim they are the same as the old ones as they aren't. Someone in this forum is selling a 74 right now. They are fairly easy to work on if you don't mind 700 volts of plate voltage, haha! very logically layed out. They have 5 or 10 ohm (depending on the age of the head) 5 watt resistors in the plate circuit which open if the power tube starts drawing too much current or shorts out, which protects the rest of the circuit. The tubes are also easy to get. 70's SVT's are THE amps to get for bass, even the old cabs sound better IMHO.

blue330 · Post by **blue330** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:28 am

I agree that it's simply worth it to find a clean 70s SVT, then your search is over. In my day, people were so pleased to finally have a bass amp that didn't wheeze out on big stages, etc., that they happily dealt with hauling them around, and you know, back then everybody was a skinny hippie. So, get a nice hand truck and have another person help put the amp up on the cabinet. No problem! I'm in the studio business and we have a '71-ish SVT which works day in, day out with not a hiccup. I'd say that most people coming in with modern equipment want to try the SVT and more often than not, decide to use it. All the new stuff is great but the SVT has that certain something, not just power. I think Ampegs in general have an upper bass honk that really cuts through the mix. And because they have so much power, you don't typically work the amp all that hard and tubes last for ages.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:25 pm

I've been using them since 1975 when I bought my first set up for 400.00 second hand. Their sound has a lot of texture that modern amps just don't have.

bassman2k · Post by **bassman2k** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:17 pm

Can anyone tell what year this is?

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=ampeg+svt&category0=

It looks heavily used. I feel like I'm hoping for something that might not be so easy to get: an original working SVT that does not cost a fortune. I think that's why I keep looking back at the VR--it's my fallback plan.

Also, quick question, what is the comparison of tube life for the SVT and modern day SVT-XX, and also the cost to replace them?

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:04 pm

Look to your other thread in the bass section for the cost. A vintage SVT should have about the same tube life as a modern one unless they changed the voltages in the modern one. Hard to say without seeing the guts of the modern one and checking it's specs with a meter.

This SVT:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-AMPEG-SVT-BASS-AMPLIFIER-TUBE-AMP-300-W-HEAD-NR_W0QQitemZ190138556145QQihZ009QQcategoryZ121156QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

is a 70's era one, but has been modded slightly just from the visual pics because there should be 4 inputs on the left...instead there are two with something else added. There may be more mods inside...can't say without seeing it.

This one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Ampeg-SVT-all-tube-bass-amp-head-1969-old-6146B_W0QQitemZ200140631908QQihZ010QQcategoryZ121156QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

looks like it has seen a rough life, but the person selling it sounds like he knows what they are about and has taken care of it. This is one of the very early SVT's with 6146B power tubes, and these ones put out a little more power and are more aggressive especially in the mids than the 6550 amps. I like the 6550 ones myself better, but I like these ones too.

If you bought a vintage SVT, at worst, you would spend $400 on tubes and about $100 on caps if you did the work yourself. Most likely, you'll spend the $100 on caps and be good for several years before needing any tubes, and then spend $250 and put in new power tubes. You may even get lucky and get something that has been serviced and you'll be good to go. Vintage SVT's will outlast you if you maintain them with new caps every 10-20 years, and tubes every 5 years or so with heavy use. The 12DW7, 12BH7 and 6C4 that were in the old SVT's and are not in modern SVT's are readily available as NOS from places like Antique Electronics (www.tubesandmore.com), and those circuits that use those tubes sound better too.

bassman2k · Post by **bassman2k** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:14 pm

Is a V4 a different beast than the SVT? How do they compare?

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:22 am

The V4 has the same preamp as the SVT but a different poweramp that gives lower power. They are a very good sounding and reliable amp like almost all of Ampeg's vintage stuff. I think their true power output is somewhere around 150 watt but they were advertised as 100 watt amps. They're cool but an SVT isn't too much more dinero and the extra power means you always have enough, and you probably get a bit tighter bass response too with the SVT.

bassman2k · Post by **bassman2k** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:39 am

That's about what I figured.

Does anyone know of a site with ampeg information, perhaps a forum? I'd like to do more research.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:12 am

The best resource would be the Ampeg Book, which Bill Moore and Gregg Hopkins wrote a couple years back.

http://www.amazon.com/Ampeg-Story-Behind-Gregg-Hopkins/dp/0793579511

bassman2k · Post by **bassman2k** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:37 pm

Thanks for the link. Is this just a history of the company, or are there tech specs on the equipment they've made over the years as well?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:14 pm

V4-B's are 100 watt heads, put out about 120 with the 6550 mod which most people don't recommend any more as 7027A's are again available. I owned one for many years and used it at small gigs, they're nice little amps but just don't have it when it comes down to the time where you need a little extra. The tone centers are also a little different than an SVT's are, so they sound different, the preamps are a little different, they have one channel preamps with two volume controls if I remember correctly, nice but different. Nothing compares with a vintage SVT and it doesn't really matter too much what they look like, if they are stock they can be made to sound great and are very reliable. The V4-B's I've seen lately have been overpriced, I'd pay 400.00 tops for a nice one. A 6146B SVT head is worth a lot of money and those tubes are readily available. They are a very common ham transmitter tube. I'd get a 6550 head though. You can expect to pay from 1200-1400 for a nice late 70's SVT and all the 70's heads sound the same to me, I've owned both, I had an early blue line for years.
A SVT-VR is a completely different animal than an SVT. They're not cheap either, you could buy a good 70's SVT and have money left over as a matter of fact.