Searchers (Sire)

mdenger · Post by **mdenger** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:30 pm

Hi All, I'm a bit late here but if you haven't seen it yet my page about the first Sire lp is now on the net.

http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mdenger/

Michael

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:39 pm

Michael: Once again you have provided us with some detailed information regading the recordings of The Searchers, this time the Sire recordings.

As I read over your findings, I found myself asking the same question that you proposed at the end of your article.

From your article

Great songs, releases in every important country, television appearances, darlings of themusic press again - but the so much deserved success didn’t come. What went wrong?

According to the Searchers Sire didn’t care for enough publicity.

When listening to the Sire material it is clear that this is a departure from the Searchers'
style of the British Invasion Years. Clearly a degree of risk came with this recording venture. I don't think that we can blame the lack of promotion for the poor charting of this release. This material, while fresh and interesting, does not seem to stand out at the time of its recording in the in the same way that The Searchers' first recordings stood out in the early to mid 1960s.

The magic time of the 1960s had passed for The Searchers and many of their contemporaries. Their early chart toppers are all time classics and will be forever. To expect that new recordings some 15 years later would achieve the same success as the early days is perhaps unrealistic.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:38 pm

Disagree in some ways Peter, I do not think that The Searchers themselves thought these recordings would see them attaining the success they had in the sixties, but I believe they did think that they felt a fresh interest in them media wise etc could come about and to some degree did. The main problem they always had since the hits dried up for them is getting airplay on radio stations, their name is forever entwined with the Merseybeat boom.

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:15 pm

Roy: I appreciate your point and The Searchers certainly surely realized that they were swimming upstream I am sure. Mike Pender has commented on the fine quality of these recordings but has also mentioned, albeit briefly, that he was dissapointed that this material did not chart.

Your comment

"their name is forever entwined with the Merseybeat boom."

is well taken and in a sense captures what I was attempting to articulate. Their material stood out in the 1960s and was head and shoulders above a number their competition. I still consider that, in the relative sense, the Sire material did not have the same "sparkle" for its time.

The radio stations chose not to play it, but surely they did get the promotional information and releases which led them to make this decision.

Why were we swept away on the crest of a wave after listening to The Searchers in the early 1960s. It was a magnetic sound that attracted us instantly and its pull was felt in North America as well. The Sire music, which I enjoy and appreciate does not have the same appeal to me. As a dyed-in-the-wool avid, does the Sire material hold a candle to the early PYE days?

einar · Post by **einar** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:32 am

Hello,
My stand is, that compared to the often bewildered efforts in late PYE days, then through Liberty and RCA, the Sire stuff sounds all right for a 60's group adapting to the contemporary music scene! Especially through the choice of songs for record II ("Play for Today"). Not to mention; compared with the later, Hungry Hearts stuff. As I clearly find a link from Needles and Pins to Hearts In Her Eyes, I can see little continuity (or charm or whatever) in the German stuff (although they re-do "Needles" there!). But where did the Rickenbacker sound go?

(I'm right in the heels of John jr. in the hierarcy of this list. And NOW I am very curious to see if I leave the JUNIOR MEMBER level with this (daft) posting!).

Einar

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:06 am

Not a daft posting at all, a valid point made Einar.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:57 am

"But where did the Rickenbacker sound go?" - Einar, November 18, 2003

This question gets to the heart of the matter, Einar. The "sparkling jangle" of the Rickenbacker through the Vox AC-30 was to be short-lived. Hanging up the Rickenbacker was part of the "new" and more contemporary sound and I give the Searchers full marks for achieving that sound. The trouble is, their older following was still yearning for this vintage sound that made them famous and didn't fancy the transition. The younger potential following did not seem to get it either.

The Searchers would find their best success returning to the "sixties circuit" and the boomers were first in line to hear them. So this return to the older sound brough back the Rickenbacker 12 string guitar and I am just as well pleased.

The 40th anniversay was certainly the time to bring back the Sire recordings and one of my projects over the next while is to listen to this body of work more closely.

As listeners, much of our preferences for music are determined during adolescence and as adults we seem to return there. Remember when it comes to music, "Adulthood is a stage and adolescence is forever."

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:32 pm

Now, these two records seem to be somewhat of a legend here - people heard about them but never heard the records themselves... BTW, is there any way i might find them somewhere?..
(even if i'm afraid that Peter McCormack is right...)

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:26 am

Sheena: You can get the Sire Sessions here.

BTW, I won't be at all surprised if you like this body of work. It is just different and less appealing to me than their early 1960s material.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:50 am

Thank you, Peter! I'll try it...
(BTW, i won't be at all surprised if i like 'Hungry hearts' as well. If it's funny why not?)

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:28 pm

Note: no offence intended. Maybe my critical attitude is the follow-up to the fact i was much too young back then and couldn't have any special memories about this one or feel the special magic. It IS here, for sure, but while 'Hungry hearts' had a kind of this 'desperate boyish optimism' and love for life, Sire records, while having a kind of spontaneity, seem to sound 'old' and somehow 'tired' in lead vocals department.
And sorry to say that, Peter is completely right... Yes, there IS a couple of stand-outs (for two albums, now!) imho, but on the whole, the material is closer to "so-so" than "outstanding"... I wonder, i've read an interview in which Frank Allen stated that they've thrown off tons of their own material in order to get "the best songs" so what was that they have thrown away like?! On the other hand, a "non-cover Searchers record" would probably have raised more interest... that'd be more 'original', at least...
The other problem is that they sound a bit like everybody (from Beatles to the Ramones) and therefore like nobody in particular. That's not too bad, but to make it to the top you should have your very own 'face', shouldn't you?
Third problem: the overly mood and partly the sound. Nothing's wrong with instrumental part, actually, and harmonies are cute, but the lead vocals... i mean, that's my own opinion which might have been a bit influenced by some interviews, but it feels like while the other guys are having good fun, Mike Pender is not at all. Sometimes his voice sounds so weak it makes me think, 'gosh, he was chosen to be the leadsinger, what for?' Well, "Almost Saturday night", for instance. Seems like he doesn't even know the tune! Of course, McNally does his best to keep the tune right, but... he's not a god, i suppose. Oh yes, i'm really sorry but why didn't they have Spencer at the time?..
Now to the highlights. And the first one is Billy Adamson. What a show, man! Now that's obvious he's really a good drummer. Bass? Fine as usually. Guitars? At times, much more than Okay. "No dancing", for instance. The introduction 'solo' makes me wonder if John McNally had a side job as Johnny Ramone (a compliment!). The whole song is just superb!
Other 'kick' songs imho: "Switchboard Susan" (even the lead vocals!), "Don't hang on" (dig that guitarr!), "You are the new day" (extremely beautiful in its innocence, the sound somehow resembles Blackmore's Night but there was no BN back then, as far as i remember...) The others are either "well-done" or boring, to me...
And i quite agree that the originals are nothing special, unfortunately. "This kind"? Has everything to become a 'momentary hit', which means 'silly enough'. Funny in a way, hard to believe it was written by a family guy in his late 30s... "Changing"? Can a song be flat? If it can, that's it. "Another night" is interesting, unusual in a way, but to me, sounds a bit underdone... Well, nothing's wrong with "Don't hang on" as i have already said, maybe a bit unusual for Frank Allen but that's not bad at all!
Could it have been a hit record in other circumstances? Maybe, but, sorry to say, somehow i doubt it...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:12 am

I obviously don't know anywhere near the amount all of you seem to know about The Searchers although I always did really like them from the first time I heard Needles And Pins. But I do agree somewhat with them as far as the lack of publicity goes. We were lucky enough to have the third underground radio station in the country here in Boston, WBCN (from 1968 when FM was all classical music) which didn't really have playlists that were jammed down your throat like radio today, the DJ's were pretty much free to choose what they wanted to play without pressure except for a few records an hour. In fact they broke a lot of bands and used to really support the local scene here. Anyway Hearts in her Eyes was a pretty big hit on this station, in fact they pushed the album pretty well. It was big news here that The Searchers released a new contemporary sounding album. I also believe it was at least partially the reticence of the mostly conservative stations who were not willing to take a chance on a band like The Searchers. Disco was in at that point on the commercial stations, and was real easy to make money with disco and commercial radio has never been about art, we know that.
I do not know how many copies sold here but I knew plenty of people who had it, I didn't.

jjr · Post by **jjr** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:15 pm

You can't really compare early Searchers with the SIRE stuff as far as Mike's vocals. There was a whole different dynamic. Two (Mike and Tony) or three (throw in Chris) leads, many times in harmony. On the Sire LPs, you generally have two part backgrounds, and Mike doing all the leads.

That being said, I think the SIRE Sessions are some of their best works. You have great song selection, including a lot of potential commercial stuff in addition to Hearts- "No Dancing", "It's too Late", "Switchboard Susan", "Silver", Everything but a Heartbeat","September Girls"; great 12 string hooks (and double 12 string playing, solid drumming, and exquisite harmonies. The one thing you didn't have (in New York) was promotion. I found "The Searchers" by accident while browsing a record store. I read one two line item that let me know about "Love's Melodies"

I still consider the Sire LPs as the musical equivalent of "Return of the Jedi" vis a viz "Star Wars: A New Hope", i.e this is what they would have done the first time around if given the time and technology.

By the bye; why doesn't Spencer ever play 12 string?

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:39 pm

...my Man always tells me, 'don't be in a hurry', and he's right. There are things you don't see at first, but having had a closer look... that's what they call 'hidden gems', right? "It's too late" - a real fine tune. "Coming from the heart" sounds almost-divine when the harmony part begins. Lovely Russian accent of Mike Pender on "Back to the war" (i KNOW it must be a Scouse accent but it sounds so much russian...). The sheer simplistic magic of "Infatuation" - something so pure and moving that it almost brings a lady to tears, especially "someone to caaaall my own"... Or the earthly, masculine charm of "Murder in my heart"...
Come to think of it, maybe the main problem was the potential audience. Who could have bought the records there and then? The devoted fans? I think they all did. The not-so-devoted ones? Some of them did, i think. But - they were too young to have nostalgic feelings. And they have lots of other things to care about - work, families, kids, etc. Teenage girls? Well... the band still looked fine... for guys fast approaching their forties... but young girls like young boys, right? Teenage boys had other heroes. Spiked haircuts and torn jeans might have helped, but i don't think the Searchers would look (and feel) natural in that kind of stuff. The "nostalgia" thing began some years later, so maybe they were a bit too early - again...

winston · Post by **winston** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:26 pm

As I see it, in reality very few bands managed the transition well between the mid to late sixties and into and through the seventies. Many good bands fell by the way side over time.

Make a list it would be much longer than those who succeeded.

In the music business your "star" only shines so long. The people that decide the longevity of that star quality are both fickle and unfaithful especially if a star falls short in their expectation. In short people and audiences move on very quickly. Many a band has been crushed in that stampede to desert them. The Searchers were a great band in the 60's. Their "star" shone briefly but it faded all too quickly. That was no particular fault of theirs. Just circumstances that came together and their audience obviously moved on.

There was and is a remnant left that still enjoy their music. But that remnant was never large enough to influence marketing decisions made by their record labels IMHO.