Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Some of you might have read about my quest for the Hank Marvin tone in a few of the threads here. At the request of Andrew and Peter, I have got a little guessing-game for you, now, which I have also posted on the Rickenbacker company forum. I have recorded 5 versions of the Shadows´ tune Sleepwalk ... one with my 325V59, one with my 650AVH, another one with a Burns Hank Marvin Signature, a fourth version with a Fender Highway One Stratocaster and finally one with an American Standard Stratocaster.

Now: can you spot the RICs? (This should not be too difficult, I think.)

And: who wins the price for "best guitar expert" by telling us, which one is the Highway One, the American Strat and the Burns (that´s really hard to tell, because they sound quite similar - my advice would be to listen closely to the effects that the use of the vibrato has on the melody).

For every version of the recording I have used the same equipment and the same backing tracks: the guitar is connected to the top boost channel of my VOX AC30CC1 with a BOSS DD-20 in the effects loop - recorded with a Groove Tubes GT-55 to the tape machine first, then mixed down in Logic. The only thing that differs a little is the position of the treble knob on my AC30 and the amount of compression on the guitar (a little more compression for the 325), when mixing the song down.

You will probably notice that none of the versions really sounds like Hank Marvin and that there are some minor mistakes in my playing. You might also notice a considerable amount of tape hiss. Please excuse these flaws. My fingers are not those of Hank, my living room studio is not the Abbey Road and you get a little dizzy in the head, when you record so many versions of one song.

Now here are the 5 versions:
http://homepage.mac.com/markushorn/Web/Sleepwalk-Version-1.mp3
http://homepage.mac.com/markushorn/Web/Sleepwalk-Version-2.mp3
http://homepage.mac.com/markushorn/Web/Sleepwalk-Version-3.mp3
http://homepage.mac.com/markushorn/Web/Sleepwalk-Version-4.mp3
http://homepage.mac.com/markushorn/Web/Sleepwalk-Version-5.mp3

By the way: I might add that of the 5 guitars I used, the 650AVH is by far the most comfortable to play, followed by the 325 and the Burns; the Fenders are not even getting close concerning their playability in my opinion.

This is guesswork only (which goes to show that any guitar will make a good sound if played well)

1. Rick
2. Am strat
3. Burns
4. Highway strat
5. Rick

But it may be totally up the wall.

And playability is in my opinion something you can get with any guitar with the right setup with regard to action, intonation and neck adjustment.

If you are not comfortable with the body shape or the neck profile, that's another matter, of course. Some guitars are wonderful while sittings down playing (like my Gretsch Country Gent), but a disaster to play standing.

Goran, I think you are right that you can influence the playability of an instrument to a certain extend with a good setup. But only to a certain extend. You cannot influence the body shape or the shape of the neck (as you have stated yourself), you cannot influence the height of the frets and how accurately they are set into the neck, you cannot influence the attack and sustain of the guitar and you cannot influence the construction of things like the bridge and the vibrato, which might influence the extend to which a setup works or does not work.

Regarding the 5 guitars I used here I must say that I have carefully set up all five to my best knowledge. It might be that an experienced Strat player could do a better setup of the Strats, but I think the better playability of the Burns and the RICs is also a result of a higher production quality. (The Fenders I used also have a lower price, so maybe the comparison is not fair.)

Markus: This is a very interesting exercise. A couple of years ago, Jeffrey Bauer (Prof Jeff) gave us a similar exercise and most of us struck out. These samples sound so very much alike and will make some of us wonder whether there is a significant difference in tone when it comes to single coil pickup recordings. The mix down is also a culprit here.

Having said that it is good fun.

I came to the similar conclusion to Goran.

1. Rickenbacker 325, this instrument sounds short scale in that there is less sustain to my ears

2. American Standard, selected because the sound is thinner and more vintage sounding

3. Nice vibrato and a bit of a bite to this sound so I thought the Burns would be the one

4. A fuller sound and a change in playing style suggesting you might be more familiar with this guitar and so I am going with the Highway One

5. This has the Rickenbacker humbucking tone and has a vibrato that rivals selection 3 so I am going with the 650 Atlantis.

I failed miserably before in trying to identify Jeffrey Bauer's samples and I am none the wiser today. But these are my choices, nonetheless and the rationale for them.

Peter, how long should I wait till I give further hints or the solution?

I would give others a little while, Markus. But it is, of course, entirely your call.

Markus: I guess we don't mean the same thing with playability, to me that just means the perceived ease of attacking the fretboard to achieve the notes and runs that you want. Sustain, vibrato and such things are not playability to me, they are sound/instrument quality in my world. So probably we totally agree on the sum of it.

Peter: okay, I think I will announce the right solution next Friday.

Goran: yes, I also think we agree on the sum of it. But just an observation: if you compare the American Strat, which costs about 1000,- Euro in Germany to the Hank Marvin signature (also about 1000,- Euro), you will find that the finish of the Fender is of a higher quality (polyurethan instead of polyester). The rest is clearly not only constructed/ engineered better on the Burns but also produced more accurately. If you take a look at how the bridge is constructed and manufactured or the way the frets are set into the neck, it becomes clear why you can set up the Burns to a more comfortable string height than the Fender. Do not get me wrong: the Fender Stratocaster is the Fender Stratocaster and it is not a bad guitar at all. Nevertheless I am more comfortable and very happy with my new Burns ...

Okay, 24 hours till I will post the solution to this little guessing game. So if anybody else wants to test his luck or his hearing, he should do it quickly.

Not qualified to give a technical breakdown but based purely as a listener

I would go with

1 Rick 325
2 Highway Strat
3 Burns
4 AM Strat
5 650 Rick

To me version 4 has more of an authentic Shadows sound.

Okay here is the solution. You all spotted the RICS correctly.

1. RIC 325
2. Fender Highway One Strat
3. Fender American Strat
4. Burns Hank Marvin Signature
5. RIC 650

I agree that number 4 gets closest to the original Marvin sound, but I also like the sound of the RIC 650 - it does not sound like the original, but it also sounds very good in my opinion.

well quite pleased did better than the experts!

Roy: We have been down this road so many times before with similar results. Congratulations on your responses here. That you would know about the sound of The Shadows is, however, not surprising. So well done. The best the Rickenbacker "experts" could do is accurately identify the Rickenbackers from the Fenders. Last time we tried this, we couldn't even do that so we have improved!