Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Im not a real big fan,,but I admire their place in R&R history. I always thought John Paul Jones was, (and is) the brains, and most of the talent of the outfit.

That being said,,, I just heard "Achilles last stand" on Sirius "Buzzsaw". I've never known JPJ to play a Rick, but wow, it sure sounds like one.

What do you Led Zep fans think?

He used to play a Jazz bass, but in the later 70s he switched to...it was either a WAL or an Alembic, can't remember. But not a Rick, I'm fairly certain.

And I also admire JPJ, but when it comes to Zeppelin, if you had to choose one representative brain, it would be Jimmy Page's brain. Led Zeppelin was Jimmy Page's band, no matter how you slice it.

IIRC, that song is an Alembic 8. He definitely used one live on that tune, as per Knebworth '80.

I'm not 100 % sure but I think he played it on his 8-string Hagström and got the Alembics for the '77 tour. It has a bit more "rusty" sound than the clean and clear Alembics.

JPJ always says he used the 8 string Alembic Triple Omega (actually not exactly an Alembic as it was built by Bruce Becvar, a one-time Alembic employee, although it was an Alembic in everything but name) on Achilles Last Stand and I took it to mean that he did the recording with it, but I suppose it's possible that he did the actual recording with something else and then used the Triple O for live. He got the Triple O in '76.

From a JPJones interview in a GuitarWorld Zep issue: Jones eventually settled on "a sort of sub-Alembic 8-string, which was actually a Bec-Var. It was built by a guy who was at Alembic and then left the company to start on his own. It's just an amazing creature--sort of Gothic Revival in style. Actually, it's more California Gothic, with a mandala on the back, with little mermaids, sea shells and palm trees inlaid. A very fine instrument. Very loud. The Riff King it was called. When Page first heard it he said, "Oh, no. I'm not playing to that!"

Update; From the Rock'n'roll Hall of Fame sight (which currently owns the bass)

John Paul Jones played this bass during the recording of Presence in 1976 and on tour from 1977 to 1980.
They also incorrectly state it's an Alembic Series 2 however....

I have a special interest in this because it's my favourite instrument of all time.

"Presence" was recorded in late 1975, completed a day before the Thanksgiving.

henry5 wrote:JPJ always says he used the 8 string Alembic Triple Omega (actually not exactly an Alembic as it was built by Bruce Becvar, a one-time Alembic employee, although it was an Alembic in everything but name) on Achilles Last Stand and I took it to mean that he did the recording with it, but I suppose it's possible that he did the actual recording with something else and then used the Triple O for live. He got the Triple O in '76.

From a JPJones interview in a GuitarWorld Zep issue: Jones eventually settled on "a sort of sub-Alembic 8-string, which was actually a Bec-Var. It was built by a guy who was at Alembic and then left the company to start on his own. It's just an amazing creature--sort of Gothic Revival in style. Actually, it's more California Gothic, with a mandala on the back, with little mermaids, sea shells and palm trees inlaid. A very fine instrument. Very loud. The Riff King it was called. When Page first heard it he said, "Oh, no. I'm not playing to that!"

Update; From the Rock'n'roll Hall of Fame sight (which currently owns the bass)

John Paul Jones played this bass during the recording of Presence in 1976 and on tour from 1977 to 1980.
They also incorrectly state it's an Alembic Series 2 however....

I have a special interest in this because it's my favourite instrument of all time.

OK,, I heard it again... Now I can here the 8-string.

Good tune.

pekka wrote:"Presence" was recorded in late 1975, completed a day before the Thanksgiving.

henry5 wrote:JPJ always says he used the 8 string Alembic Triple Omega (actually not exactly an Alembic as it was built by Bruce Becvar, a one-time Alembic employee, although it was an Alembic in everything but name) on Achilles Last Stand and I took it to mean that he did the recording with it, but I suppose it's possible that he did the actual recording with something else and then used the Triple O for live. He got the Triple O in '76.

From a JPJones interview in a GuitarWorld Zep issue: Jones eventually settled on "a sort of sub-Alembic 8-string, which was actually a Bec-Var. It was built by a guy who was at Alembic and then left the company to start on his own. It's just an amazing creature--sort of Gothic Revival in style. Actually, it's more California Gothic, with a mandala on the back, with little mermaids, sea shells and palm trees inlaid. A very fine instrument. Very loud. The Riff King it was called. When Page first heard it he said, "Oh, no. I'm not playing to that!"

Update; From the Rock'n'roll Hall of Fame sight (which currently owns the bass)

John Paul Jones played this bass during the recording of Presence in 1976 and on tour from 1977 to 1980.
They also incorrectly state it's an Alembic Series 2 however....

I have a special interest in this because it's my favourite instrument of all time.

After checking around some more it appears the bass may have been made in '75, and I guess the actual date of purchase (and therefore use) could go either way. I can't remember exactly when I bought any of my basses, and I've hardly led the life that JPJ has! So, your guess is as good as mine. Just out of interest, where did you hear that he used the Hagstrom on the actual recording? I haven't got the actual recording so couldn't advise either way, even if it was possible to tell (which given the scope of Alembic Series tone controls, in addition to the stuff done at the amp/board, it probably isn't). I love the bass itself to bits, but although I like Zep I don't have everything by them. So much music, so little time....

henry5 wrote:

pekka wrote:Just out of interest, where did you hear that he used the Hagstrom on the actual recording?

http://www.led-zeppelin.org/reference/g ... -1961-1973

Where they got the info I don't know. Doesn't "Nobody's Fault But Mine" also have an 8-string bass? The studio recording I mean.

Pekka, I've just dug out a long and rather in-depth interview with JPJ from Bassist (a now defunct UK magazine) Sept 1999 issue (interview by Rikki Rooksby - I'm quoting here so credit where credit's due):

Quote: What was the first track he used it on? "Achilles Last Stand (Presence) in the studio. I'd gone to Alembic and there was someone working for them who had an offshoot company called Bec-Var. He had this 8 string bass in Californian Gothic with palm trees, a mandala and other stuff. It sounded fantastic, like a big harpsichord/piano thing. And so when Page came out with the first riff of Achilles he said, 'what are we going to do with the rest of it?' I said '8 string bass!' It fitted perfectly".

Here's the bass ("The Riff King", as it was dubbed; eventually retired with a twisted neck and currently residing in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame):

On the Knebworth performance on the dvd JPJ uses this bass for both "Achilles..." and "Nobody's Fault"; as I say I don't have the album so not sure about the recording, although I would imagine that would be the case.