Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I would like to start a discussion on the roots of the blues, and then bring it forward til today, and it's influence on popular music. You could start in Africa with the rhythms, etc., but I would like to narrow the focus on what happened in America. The earliest form would be the field hollers, which in many cases, had a call and response, much like the guitar responds to the vocal in the blues. I have a collection of Roots music called Back to Babylon, and it has a ton of early roots music, hollers, and such. One interesting aspect, at least to me, was the last cd. It was a cd of preachers preaching, with blues piano playing in the background. I like to call it the "earliest rap"!

Later on, when some of the children of the slave owners/slaves were sent to Europe, they returned with training on many orchestral instruments, and that confluence, centered in New Orleans, was the birth of jazz. They started jamming with the blues musicians in the clubs and off they went.

At least that is what I have gleaned from the Blues history books on my shelf.

The origins of music in general and the blues in particular is a great study Charly. Thanks for this early beginning.

Even in modern times it is tough to face some tough days with a twinkle in one's eye and a bounce in one's step. The "hollers" as you have referred to them provide a means of changing one's focus and sharing an arduous task with others. Many hands or many songs, perhaps, make light work.

What is so interesting about music and the blues is that while a plan to get along with work is not always successful in changing mood, feeling good, is! The former being attempted through the use of the frontal cerebral cortex and the latter, the limbic system. Blues or "hollers" allows us to experience a feeling and sense of control over a situation in which we oten times have very little.

At the end of the day, the blues allows us to cope with adversity while sharing and documenting its burden.

Nice comment Peter. The biggest misconception about the blues is that it is sad music, and I quote, "Blues is just a good man feeling bad." That may be true, but blues is a catharsis, it gets you to feeling better, and at the end of the day, it is downright uplifting at times.

IMHO, it is about getting you out of, or past those bad feelings. Again, as it seems in all of life, it is the process that is where it's "at". Folks shouldn't walllow in the blues, they should revel in them!!

The *commercial* history of the blues begins with W.C. Handy, near the turn of the century. He heard a bluesman playing at a railway station, fell in love with what he was doing, and in turn wrote several loosely derived, tidied-up blues numbers. These songs included "St. Louis Blues", which for much of the first half of the 20th century was one of the most popular songs, if not the most popular, in America.

That is correct jb! That is where all the history books I have read start. I don't think that is fair to those who came before. But I then limited my discussion to just those things that happened in America. I guess you gotta start somewhere. It bugs me just a little that it is not considered valid until it is commercial.

charlyg wrote:That is correct jb! That is where all the history books I have read start. I don't think that is fair to those who came before. But I then limited my discussion to just those things that happened in America. I guess you gotta start somewhere. It bugs me just a little that it is not considered valid until it is commercial.

Well, that brings up an interesting point - nowadays, anybody can make and sell an album with fairly little inconvinience, thereby making it "commercial", as well as there some record of it - what I mean is, if somebody "invents" a genre today, never before heard, they can easily record it, and we can therefore trace its origins.

We begin at W.C. Handy because we don't know much for sure before that! There were certainly no "blues" recording artists prior to Handy, nor was there any published "blues" sheet music prior to Handy. All we have to go by is some very ragged oral tradition, which at this point can no longer be substantiated in the first degree. We know for sure about W.C. Handy and "St. Louis Blues", and can back it up with facts. Anything before that is simply anybody's guess.

You are correct, however - and this is certainly fact - that "call and response" originated with the field hollers of the mid-to-late 19th century, and is a staple of blues music.

Charly, have you read anything by Alan Lomax? Surely you know about him and his father.

That is what got me started on my blues quest (well the movie Crossroads led me to the book). The Lomax stories intrigued me, and I picked up more books. It's been a few years, I should probably re-read them as I want to be as accurate as possible. After reading more than a few, I started noticing they all seemed to be written by white folks! So I came to a conclusion, the black folks were too busy making the music, so it was left to us to get it written down. I hope folks don't take that wrong. I think it is neat that we have the books around, not to mention all the recordings done that are now in the Library of Congress.

I'm not sure I would put the oral tradition down as completely vague and unreliable. Maybe not verifiable, and probably some of it embellished. I guess an example would be the Crossroads legend. The fellow's name was Johnson all right, but his first name was NOT Robert! And it is not about selling your soul to the devil. The story that is, not the song.

You guys are just analyzing to death here, blues started with: I's sooo tired. It's all about the feeling.

So much for having a cool forum Charly, discussions are always going to end with simply "it's about the feeling".

"The Blues" as with all forms of music is open to interpretation.

Some will take their lead based on the lyrics, others the melody and still others the instrumentation. An E7 chord to some is very dyanmic its character based on the positon used to play it on a guitar. For others E7 may be interpreted a simple E note.

I would argue that the sum of the parts is greater than the whole in any blues' performance and that a multifactorial analysis of the same allows for greater meaning. That the blues means different things to different people is not surprising as we all come from unique socializations. Diverse opinions with regard to The Blues speaks to its complexity. As in most things, the more we understand something, the more meaningful it becomes.

Perhaps a final point. To my way of thinking, tryng to understand feelings is a good deal more involved that we first think.

First, to tackle the "feelings" thing. It is very true, however, there is something to be said for analyzing feelings. At the least, the psychiatric profession would agree. So yes, it IS about the feelings, but not to wallow in, but to "overcome" the bad for the good. Why blues is a catharsis is a worthy discussion IMHO, and I am gonna stick to it! I don't analyze while I am listening, but I am interested in how the music of the blues soothes, comforts, and releases feelings.


Peter - Another great comment! I think the sum of the parts is why I am liking Smokin Joe Kubek so much. Having Bnois King as a rhtyhm guitar and vocalist makes those two together better than anything they could do on their own. IMHO, of course.

Fascinating discussion Charly. I am learning a lot already.

My interpretation of the blues is that it is more about conveying, portraying, and expressing the "feeling" rather than "all about the feeling". Whatever that feeling may be. More so than most other popular music genres. This discussion of the roots seems to re-inforce that interpretation to me.

Feeling like letting everyone feel the feeling you feel when you've felt a feeling.

As long as it's not Barb Streisand singin bout em....

I came to appreciate the blues through Hank Williams. Although he is considered country music's first superstar, Hank's mentor during his younger years was an Alabama bluesman named Rufus Payne, aka "Tee-Tot". If you listen to Hank's music, you can hear "Tee-Tot's" influence.

Cool stuff Richard! Tell us more about this fellow!