Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

(Split from http://www.rickresource.com/phpBB3/post ... 2&p=393541)

gareth wrote:As I said to Paul W, I really regret selling mine back in the 80's, but I was a Wal endorsee, and they were losing patience with me sneaking my Ricks onto recordings. Also, I was broke I'll never be able to afford one again for sure. I have a sneaking suspicion that the prices of these are being driven up by people who just HAVE to have one, depsite the fact that they have never seen one or played one, and once they get them, are unlikely to use them for their intended purpose. I don't have a real problem with speculators to be honest, as I own four Rick basses that are only getting more expensive by the moment. I just wish I had my old 4005 back to play. I loved that bass. I hope whover has her now plays her. I'd hate to think of her stuck in a case in a vault somewhere.

The one (and only) time I saw a 4005 was in one of the stores on Denmark street in London, I never played it and I only heard it on records.
My passion to Rickenbacker does include some "I really must have it", is that a bad thing? I AM a musician and I currently play on a small group, nothing too serious though and I can get back to the point of not playing with a band really quick...
I wonder what qualifies one to be "ok" when he purchases an expensive Rick. At least 1 album out? working part time as a musician and part time as a bar tender?

Don't take my question personally - I really understand your annoyance with people who never play and buy these guitars because they can afford them and they look nice (and by that - take the price up for everyone else). I just wonder where does the line cross, I am sure that if my good pal Marc (marc67 here in the forum) would buy one this will qualify as a justified purchase, he makes ends meet making music for the past 15 years. He is a good example for a "legitimate" Vintage Rick owner.
I also agree that when someone who can't/won't play purchase a vintage Rick this might qualify as an "illegitimate" purchase.

Again: where do you think the line crosses?
This is an open question to everyone as it really interests me.
(Again, Gareth: You simply "sparked" the life back to a question I had in mind for months... This is not an attack on you or on anybody else (sometimes I seem a bit aggressive)).

Cheers.

Gil, nobody condemns you about your passion an the ""I really must have it" attitude. That is a kind of sentimentality every one of us might have about some certain kind of Rick. I owned about 15 different Ricks over the time and I also had 3 Ricks at a time, some time ago, as I was always seaching for the "holy grail" Rick and I compared them to eachother. However I figured out, for me to get my "dream machine" I rather opt for the customizing artwork of Paul W. than spending grands and grands for the high speed increasing prices of vintage (and recently new as well) Ricks. I never envied any of those collectors who play their Ricks, even if it can be only once a year as they already have over 365 Ricks ! What really upsets me is a kind of "stock dealer's" attitude and all the speculation business on Rick instruments. That should really be confined to the stock market itself.
But again I can't blame anybody for this, as we in the RRF contributed a considerable share to this development and still do by the appraisals and discussion about the value of certain Ricks. For me the most valuable Rick is the one which growls, sings and punches best in the hands of a dedicated player (I'm not that good player ), those hang-on-the-wall Ricks are just dead pieces of wood and for a speculation business are easily exchangeable for ancient gold coins or anything else which might turn up to provide a better profit one day???

Like it or not everyone is a collector.

Just imagine if we all stopped collecting - many economies would collapse and there would be a lot of rubbish on the streets.

Gil, your questions have stimulated a few brain cells with me. By way of background, I never set out to become a Rickenbacker collector. It started four years ago when I wanted to replace the 1980s 360-12WB I owned about fifteen years ago. As I read the Smith book my wife purchased for me in 1988, and I discovered the Forum, I found that I thoroughly enjoyed learning about all of the different models Rickenbacker made and their history.

Next thing I knew I had owned nearly 35 Rickenbackers, with my current collection consisting of 20 mostly vintage Rickenbacker guitars and basses. Like most things I do, I've pursued this hobby with an absolute passion. My collecting has seen me travel to places I never thought I'd visit and given me the opportunity to meet so many great people, many who have become close friends.

I have some rules with my collecting. First up, I have to actually like the model. Convertible 6/12 string models do nothing for me and I don't lose a moment's sleep not owning one. Late 50s Capris and F models cause me to drool. I have two F models and three Capris. Like you Gil, the 4005 basses have proven elusive so far but, hey, I can't complain. One day I'll buy one.

Secondly, originality is important to me, but not critical. Most of my instruments have not been restored and don't need to be. They show genuine players wear in some cases. I do own a gorgeous '72 4001 which has been resurrected from the dead and refinished in Azureglo.

Thirdly, I love the thrill of the hunt and the chance to find a bargain. Some of the most collectable guitars I have came from astute purchases or purely lucky finds. I'm not scared to spend money on the right instrument, but I rarely pay "full retail price".

Next, I really enjoy the fact that the things I've chosen to collect happen to be out-perfoming the stock market at the moment and are likely to continue increasing in value. Of course, the gain is never realised until a guitar gets sold, but I draw comfort in the knowledge that my toys aren't a waste of money. There are plenty of collectors who sink extraordinary amounts of money into stuff which never yields a break-even return. I sold a '64 Gretsch Country Gent this week for 30% more than I paid a year ago, and promptly spent all the proceeds on a '64 Selmer Thunderbird Twin 30 amp and a blackface '66 Fender Super Reverb amp, both at bargain prices.

I enjoy the aesthetics of every instrument in my collection and admire their gorgeous lines as they hang on the wall. I try to play a different guitar each day. However, none of my instruments are case queens. They all deserve to be played at practice and at gigs. I'm not scared to get up on stage and rip into some blues on my 360 Capri or one of the F models. Last weekend I used a '65 RM 1997, a '65 360-12 and a '63 Strat at a gig. For last Sunday's Melbourne Rickenbacker Confluence I loaded 27 guitars and basses into my Scar!

I don't care for p*ssing contests between collectors. I don't get hung up on who has what, or how many instruments some one else has. I don't care whether some else thinks I have too many or too few guitars. It's not a competition (unless of course I'm sitting with my trigger finger placed strategically on a bargain BIN price and then the gloves come off!). I think it's great when one of our colleagues scores a good deal - Tony Cabibi's recent '71 4001BG comes to mind. A character like Tony, who contributes a lot to this place, fully deserves such a dynamite deal. I'm sure there are many here who feel the same way.

The most important part for me, though, is being able to share my collection with my guitar-playing friends. I feel pretty damn lucky to own some of the rarest Rickenbackers around and it gives me great pleasure to see others trying out a Rickenbacker acoustic for the first time (yes, Brian Medway, I'm referring to you!). I consider that I'm just the caretaker of these instruments for a while and, one day, I hope that the next owner will enjoy playing my guitars as much as I do.

I don't know if these points make me a good collector or not. A passionate collector? Yes, definitely!

rick_ovic wrote:My collecting has seen me travel to places I never thought I'd visit and given me the opportunity to meet so many great people, many who have become close friends.... They all deserve to be played at practice and at gigs.... The most important part for me, though, is being able to share my collection with my guitar-playing friends. I feel pretty damn lucky to own some of the rarest Rickenbackers around and it gives me great pleasure to see others trying out a Rickenbacker acoustic for the first time.... I don't know if these points make me a good collector or not. A passionate collector? Yes, definitely!

Having only four Rics, I've never considered myself to be a collector. However, in another sense I guess I a collector. My Rics are unique in the fact they are leftys, with three of them that could be considered very rare. I didn't buy those three because they're rare, but because I liked their sound and most important, I had the funds available at the same time the guitars were available.

I'm not in a band and my playing skills leave much to be desired, but my Rics get played as much, if not more than anything else I own. For example, week before last, I had week-long business trip that allowed me to drive instead of flying. I never had a second thought about putting my 360/12 CW LH (and a small Fender amp) in the back seat in order to have something to play in the hotel room after work. Each of my other guitars (including the Rics) have been on similar business trips.

I also probably get a much if not more joy as Darren does when my Rics are in someone else's hands at a jam such as a RickResource Confluence. Most important, like Darren said is the "opportunity to meet such great people" and the everlasting friendships that I've made.

You at least have to like Rickenbackers, I imagine.

This reminds me of my deer-in-the-headlights, culture-shock departure to Brasil for a year...much of my life I've been collecting something or other, and those of us who live in the States (or even better, California), get to enjoy a healthy collector economy 12 months a year, as there's always a get-together of some sort because of the mostly-nice climate and immense wealth of America.

I found myself in a booming tourist beach mecca (fastest-growing city in Brasil back then), but in an economy where few can afford to collect, collecting is just taking hold, and there is as a result virtually nothing to collect. I used to be "into" collecting cars, and sold most of my collection before moving to South America. I went to my first car show there, at a hotel on the beach. The winner had been trucked all the way from Sao Paulo on a flatbed--over 2K miles--on treacherous 2-lane roads (Brasil has only one modern superhighway--between Rio and Sao Paulo, a distance of about 180 miles). It was a '58 Chevy. The rest of the show was awful dune buggies with glued-on Barbie dolls, old military jeeps left from WWII (when we had an air base there), and odd local kit cars (Google "Gurgel carro" if you'd like to see these monstrosities).

A quick glance at Brasil's version of Ebay, called "mercado livre" (free (flea) market) http://www.mercadolibre.com.br will reveal a lot of basic articles typical of an economy just turning the consumer corner, but if you go to the musical instruments section, you'll find precious little except working musicians' very cheap Strat knockoffs and a lot of Chinese stuff; low-dollar stuff to make a living with (or at least try to). Virtually everyone with relatives or friends in the USA shops here.

You will find a half-dozen Rickenbackers for sale--in a country of 135 million people, and they're mostly in Sao Paulo, a city of 15 million.

There's no lack of locally-produced counterfeits, though, as I will show when I post some pics in my own "Reflections" topic area later today.

Also interesting to non-Brasilians are the terms of these auctions--they run for 30 days. And, since Brasilians are inveterate lookie-loos and hagglers, you'll fine the "Questions" section of most auctions filled with chatter and lowball offers.

I'm glad to be back in the USSR, er, USA.

I am not sure if anybody wakes up one morning and thinks, "today I'm going to start collecting...".
I sold my Kay electric from my high school band days when I went off to college in 1970. I bought an Epiphone acoustic, and that was my only guitar (except my Stella from junior high) for years. I read superhero comic books then, and finally accumulated enough of them to qualify as a "collection." I started selling them in the mid 80's to finally buy that Strat I wanted, but couldn't afford in high school. The year after that , the Les Paul I always wanted, and the year after that, the Rickenbacker 12 string I always wanted. Years later I now have 4 Ricks, plus a number of other guitars, and wonder how in the world did this happen? I do play nearly every one of them at least a couple times a year, but the Ricks have definitely gotten more play time in the past year, than the rest combined.

I have been thinking about something related to this for a while -- more in relation to those collectors who have no intention of selling anything out of their collection as long as they're alive. Now, my personal politics are very much against telling anyone what do to with their possessions or money, but I came to the inescapable conclusion that purchases that go into a vault like that sadden me, because I will almost certainly never get a chance to own that instrument myself. I've had to pass up a couple of very cool buys this year (72 4001, Blackstar, a nice fretless 4001 -- and I think I narrowly missed out on a 4002) because I don't currently have the means to own more than a couple of these things (but even being able to own 2 basses of this quality is pretty sweet) -- but I can always say, hey, maybe I'll be able to get it next time it comes up.

I think this is true for me regardless of whether or not they're played, by amateur or professional -- I don't care much what other people do with them, it's about whether or not I'll ever have a shot at them. I really am mostly happy when people here snag cool Ricks, especially at great prices, and most especially when it's something they've been looking for and not been able to own before. I'm not even objecting to vaults. They just bum me out, is what I'm saying.

rick_ovic wrote:.........

I don't care for p*ssing contests between collectors. I don't get hung up on who has what, or how many instruments some one else has. I don't care whether some else thinks I have too many or too few guitars......I think it's great when one of our colleagues scores a good deal - Tony Cabibi's recent '71 4001BG comes to mind. A character like Tony, who contributes a lot to this place, fully deserves such a dynamite deal. I'm sure there are many here who feel the same way.

The most important part for me, though, is being able to share my collection with my guitar-playing friends. I feel pretty damn lucky to own some of the rarest Rickenbackers around..... I consider that I'm just the caretaker of these instruments for a while and, one day, I hope that the next owner will enjoy playing my guitars as much as I do.

I don't know if these points make me a good collector or not. A passionate collector? Yes, definitely!

Why, THANK YOU for the kind words Darren, very kind of you! I'm flattered, honestly!

I don't consider myself a "collector" in the purest sense of the word. YES, I have a small collection. Some of them are rare, some are unique and some are priceless to me (although not just in a monetary way). I like them to be in original condition and in good physical shape, but almost all of my RIC's are played on a rotating basis. The only exceptions being my CS (which only comes out to play at Christmas & Easter) and my DCM (well, I'll save that for another post).

I'm not a working musician, so to justify having more than just a few is impossible, but somehow I've managed to acquire 11! Allowing me to own so many is purely an indulgement on my wife's part! I have no intentions on adding more to my RIC family, but I'm sure somehting will come along that I like to have.

I guess I'm a small time collector compared to other's out there, and I SURE didnt' start out by saying "I'm going to collect Rickenbacker's", it just kind of happened!

Hey Tony, I heard that Mr. Ellie used to own that bass!!

There's nothing wrong with collecting or playing, and most individuals it would seem, do a bit of both. One does, because one can...

The subjective nature of the beast is what makes it interesting, and usually one's needs take priority over one's wants. So, collect away, and simply enjoy the ability to do so, without a care or guilt.

Life is good....

What qualifies one to be a good Rickenbacker collector?

To own at least one Rickenbacker.

beatlefreak wrote:What qualifies one to be a good Rickenbacker collector?

To own at least one Rickenbacker.

And a replica pin, got to have a replica pin!

rickenbrother wrote:

beatlefreak wrote:What qualifies one to be a good Rickenbacker collector?

To own at least one Rickenbacker.

And a replica pin, got to have a replica pin!

I have a Rickenbacker pick here SOMEWHERE, does that count?