Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

It does not suprise me in any way. Everything is costing more these days. I don't think it's simply a case of supply and demand. The Federal Reserve Note does not buy as much as it did once before. I think the devaluation of this fiat money and the inflation that goes along with it is the real culprit. Companies don't increase prices for the hell of it. Any comment on this Paul, as you are familiar with the RIC business model and have commented on it many times over the years...Thanks and Merry Christmas

soory posted this to wrong topic.. thought I had it under Reflections of A Crumudgeon

I reflect in other topic areas, too, Brian. I can't say I'm that familiar with their business model; it is only a mix of deduction, observation of the products and manufacturing processes, posts I've read by John and Ben Hall, and conversations with these two guys over the last few years.

I've already shared my views on this subject, but to condense: The price increase was long overdue, a response to higher taxes, material, vendor, and labor costs, and quite fair IMO. Consider that instruments ordered at these prices won't be built for 12-18 months, and you will see that there's a certain amount of crystal-gazing necessary, so that pricing and profits stay ahead of a tough-to-predict curve.

Incidentally, there was a "pinhead revolt" on another forum which shall remain nameless but not initial-less; the guys there who fomented it are reprobates with axes that will never be sharp enough where RIC is concerned. The posts were entirely predictable. The impact on me was the Big **yawn** and a slight upturn of a smile.

Thanks for reflecting Paul.

jingle_jangle wrote: Incidentally, there was a "pinhead revolt" on another forum which shall remain nameless but not initial-less; the guys there who fomented it are reprobates with axes that will never be sharp enough where RIC is concerned. The posts were entirely predictable. The impact on me was the Big **yawn** and a slight upturn of a smile.

I saw one "pinhead revolt" on another forum. Like I said on that infantile forum, the opinions that matter are those of people that appreciate Rickenbacker instruments. As sad as it is that these "pinheads" cannot find at least some appreciation for RIC instruments, I find the long, drawn out tirades and amount of disgust, in an amazing amount of posts shown by "pinheads" that claim to hate RIC instruments, quite strange and funny. If they don't like RIC instruments, what do they care?!?
They also claim to come to this forum for a laugh...really?
Are you reading this, pinheads? You're on the outside, looking in!!

So there is no other opinion about this allowed but the company line? I expect a certain amount of fawning on this site, but now it seems that no amount of dissent is permitted from the Rickenbacker group-think.

It makes me sad, because I have gleaned a tremendous amount of information here about guitars that I love. The attitude of the "chosen ones" here leaves much to be desired. It seems that the tent is actually pretty small.

no kidding about that i am all for some dissent here, e.g. the business model *is* questionable. looking at the future of it i am not so sure it will survive without some budget line. it was in my opinion grave mistake to take 450 450/12 or 610 610/12 from the lineup. there is no entry level rick available. todays 18 year old will not be attracted to the expensive rick guitars when they will be able to afford some 3 grand instrument in their late 20s. the generation of boomers and postboomers is the last one to go with that idea of buying expensive icon of the past.

i simply can't understand why they do not ressurect electro and make 450 450/12 610 610/12 under that label in some closely controled enviroment overseas or south of border. flame me, it would be preservation of your icon as well.

freshmattyp wrote:So there is no other opinion about this allowed but the company line? I expect a certain amount of fawning on this site, but now it seems that no amount of dissent is permitted from the Rickenbacker group-think.

It makes me sad, because I have gleaned a tremendous amount of information here about guitars that I love. The attitude of the "chosen ones" here leaves much to be desired. It seems that the tent is actually pretty small.

Matt,

I hope that this site never becomes a place where "...no amount of dissent is permitted..." and I believe that there are countless examples where members of this forum have questioned decisions made by RIC, including the post by Dusan above. Others have even been disappointed with guitars that they had ordered and waited years to receive. People are certainly allowed to voice concerns, ask questions, raise issues and even express disappointment. While I haven't read the forum quotes that Paul and Joey refer to above, I have seen examples of the kind of comments to which they are referring. Generally speaking, the kind of critique that is offered on this forum is respectful and arises from a deep affection for Rickenbacker instruments. Here is a link to what I believe is that kind of discussion: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=361972 I think you'll find some strong comments there. Not that every word in that thread is without flaw; it's not hard to read between the lines and see individual's frustrations...with all kinds of things.

When it comes to the kind of vitriolic comments of which Paul and Joey speak, it seems to me that they often find their genesis in an anger or disgust with either the instruments, the company or its leaders. Let me be clear about the fact that I certainly could be wrong about where this bitterness starts. I don't always know what's going on between my own ears, so I hesitate to conclude that I know what's going on in someone else's head. If I'm missing something, or making too great a generalization, I am happy to be corrected. Someone who has constructive criticism to offer is actually a real friend, because the critique is intended to build up. One who criticizes for the purpose of tearing down, is limited to an audience of those who want to join in the destruction. I try not to waste time listening to those kind of folks.

Do I always agree with every decision John Hall makes on behalf of the company? Do I think that every guitar that comes out of the factory is flawless and that every RIC is better than any other guitar in the world? The answer to both questions is, "No." That being said, John Hall is the head of RIC and he's the one who gets to make decisions about the corporation and it's direction, whether I think its a good idea or not. Lot's of people here have questioned the price increase both on this forum and in discussions outside of it. Most of the questioning is about the business strategy of such a move, not about the increase itself. The high end RICs are still not as expensive as my PRS CU24. I have had a RIC that I was disappointed with, but I still love Rickenbacker guitars. Because of that affection, I think I'm able to express concern or even frustration about a particular instrument in a respectful manner. That is not exclusive to me, but something that I believe characterizes most members of the Forum (which is due in no small part to Peter's great work at trying to keep the atmosphere civil and friendly)

I hope some of what I've said is helpful. If not, then you are certainly free to discard it. I don't know if your post contained a bit of exaggeration to make a point, or if that's what you actually think. If it's the later, then perhaps you may be reading things into people's statements that aren't really there. I don't think anyone who is a member of this Forum sees it as a bunch of Lemmings running toward Santa Ana and the sea beyond it.

John - that was a very thoughtful post. If you are truly interested in what set me off, it was this:

jingle_jangle wrote:Incidentally, there was a "pinhead revolt" on another forum which shall remain nameless but not initial-less; the guys there who fomented it are reprobates with axes that will never be sharp enough where RIC is concerned. The posts were entirely predictable. The impact on me was the Big **yawn** and a slight upturn of a smile.

I wish I could muster as much contempt for the "reprobates" as Paul. It seems like the author views the RRF as his personal Algonquin Roundtable and the rest of the online world as a biker bar. That's the attitude I don't care for, and Paul is hardly the only one on this site with that opinion. There is a streak of elitism running rampant here.

All IMHO and YMMV

freshmattyp wrote:So there is no other opinion about this allowed but the company line? I expect a certain amount of fawning on this site, but now it seems that no amount of dissent is permitted from the Rickenbacker group-think.

It makes me sad, because I have gleaned a tremendous amount of information here about guitars that I love. The attitude of the "chosen ones" here leaves much to be desired. It seems that the tent is actually pretty small.

Personal attacks, Matt, do nothing to help or hinder an opinion, but they do cloud the waters.

Viewing this as the "Company line" betrays a certain amount of cynicism, if not downright paranoia. This is the pervading atmosphere in the group I made reference to. I can't see how difficult it could be to accept the simple fact that occasional price increases are due to increases in vendor and labor costs? Many of the folks in that other group would use any excuse they can to take pot shots at RIC, John Hall, and even at Hall family members. Because of the loose/lack of moderation there, adolescent and childish personal attacks are prevalent, and it brings the level of discourse so very low that it's a sad and depressing place to visit.

Rereading the threads on this topic on that forum, I am impressed (?) most, not with whether they got their facts correct (many didn't), or stated their cases well (and there was a vague negativity but few specific cases cited), but simply by the meanness of a place where ad hominem remarks are stock-in-trade.

Perhaps I should have prefaced my comments with the fact that I have no issue with the price increase. I thought I had made that clear in one of the other threads on the topic, but perhaps not. I've slept since then.

I went overboard in singling you out Paul, and for that I owe you an apology. It doesn't change my opinion on the matter, but I am capable of making my point without resorting to that.

Cynical? Most likely. Paranoid? I don't think so, but that doesn't mean you aren't out to get me.

Har and thanks, Matt. And it was most certainly NOT the Tele Players' Forum to which I was referring with my "pinheads" comment.

Joey knows exactly who I am referring to, judging by his own remarks.

I actually used to post on that forum quite a bit under a different user name, but I stopped about two and a half years ago when it went to adolescent then to infantile.

+1 on that, good buddy...John Simmons called it "The Whine Cellar" once...it was a milk-spitter.