New Les Paul opinions?

[86kubicki]

After never having an interest in Les Pauls my entire life, I find that I'm jonesin' for one now. I was wondering if anyone here is a Gibson fan who knows the current state of Gibson quality. I'm probably looking for a new one, and was checking out a Les Paul Classic 1960 in a local shop the other day. It seemed pretty nice but I'm not sure if there's something I should be looking for as I've never really played one before. Thanks!

[ken_j]

They are hit or miss IMO. I would only buy in person, not over the internet or catalog. One thing to look closely at is where the fretboard and or binding meets the neck (glue joint). I have seen some where the fretboard appears to have shrunk or the is cut too narrrow. Make sure all of the hardware and pickups are mounted with proper allignment.

[tamborineman]

Steve, I have owned several in my life . I think the quality in general has been very good. The worst one's were in the mid 70's. My two favorite models have always been The Les Paul Standard and the Les Paul Junior Double cut away . Another preferance would be a fat '50's style neck . I have played the 1960 model and liked it overall. It does have the thinner 60's style neck. I like the feel of the fat neck and I think it helps the sustain, though I have owned a 30th anniv. gold top [ thinner neck ]for 20 years and played the hell out of it. Price aside for a moment, the next question would be P-90 or Humbucking. If I can only have one LP it would have Humbuckers but the P-90 have an awesome kick for a single coil. The 1957 standard gold top [historic custom shop] reissue is one of the sweetest LP's ever made though probabley $1000 more than the one you are looking at. One last point I would avoid the LP Custom because of the flat finger board and very small [ `Fretless Wonder`] frets. All IMOHO of course.

[musicfan37]

I have a Gibson Les Paul Classic and I couldn't be happier. It has wonderful sustain and the "1960" neck feels great.

[peewee]

This is something that I absolutely have to chime in on. I've had a number of Lesters since 1983; some great, some OK. My first was a pristine 1954 goldtop that I stupidly sold back in '84 and this is the one that I judge all others against.

I've had 4 really nice ones since 2002, all of which were Historic reissues and two that featured Brazilian rosewood fretboards. The two that I've kept are probably the best Les Pauls I've ever owned; a 2001 '56 Reissue that I've fitted with all original 1955 electronics and my #1, a 2004 Tom Murphy-aged '59 Reissue that was made specificaly for export to the Japanese market. The Murphy is completely stock and more than held it's own when A/B'd with an original 1960 'burst. Hands down the best one I've ever had, including the '54 goldtop - just a magical guitar and the one I spent 20 years looking for. Here are links to pics of my two Lesters -

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p283 ... dtop21.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p283 ... R005-1.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p283 ... dIIm-1.jpg



With that said, I have to really gripe about the current state of quality control at Gibson - it sucks. After selling one of the Brazilian board guitars, I took some of the cash and bought a new 2007 Historic '59 ES-335 reissue in October. After a few weeks, I'd noticed that there were issue with the neck. It fretted out from the 8th fret to the 22nd fret all the way across the board. I took the guitar to my luthier, Phil Jacoby of Philtone Guitars in Baltimore, and had him give it the once over. Upon inspection, we discovered that the mahogany used for the neck - and a big ol' honkin' piece I might add - was soft and very unstable. The neck would move after adjusting the rod and would only adjust so far. After taking numerous photos and measurements, I sent the guitar back to Gibson Custom in Nashville for replacement.

On December 12, I received the replacement guitar and found that it had the same problem as the returned guitar. I also notice that they'd tried to cover a few chips in the nitro by overspraying the top which where visible when the light hit it a certain way. There are also a few areas of "orange peel" in the finish. For some asinine reason, Gibson frets the boards prior to gluing them to the neck which is why there are so many inconsistancies from guitar to guitar. I've been an avid Gibson player since the early '80s and I can state with all honesty that I'll never buy a new guitar from them again. For the money I shelled out - which was $4500 - the product I received in return was sub-par and extremely over priced.

Most of the current problems with Gibson stem from the company trying to compete on the international level with Fender and Yamaha. As a result, the fit and finish of most of the instruments coming out of Memphis or Nashville or in the case of the acoustic instruments, Montana, have suffered. The company is more concerned about revenue than being complacent in being a niche market manufacturer. Gibson used to stand for the ultimate in quality, now the company is a shadow of it's former self. It's pretty pathetic when the overall quality of build on my Korean made Lakland Skyline Joe Osborn bass is heads and shoulders above what I've received from GMIC as of late and for below 1/4 of the cost of what I've recently paid for a Gibson.

My advice is to play as many as humanly possible and to look for those made before 2005. There are some great guitars out there but you're going to have to thin out the dogs from the gems and the only way to do that is to hold them in hand and play them yourself. Another thing to consider is weight. The best sounding Les Pauls tend to weigh between 8.5 and 9.2 pounds on average. This has been my experience and the experience of many others as well. Neck profile is a personal preference, but a number of folks claim that the guitars with the thinner '60s profile necks have a little something extra about them. My preference is for a '59 profile which is in between the very chunky early to mid '50s neck and the thinner '60 and later profile. It's true that most folks don't like the '70s era guitars - known as "pan cake bodies" - but there are some really great playing and sounding Les Pauls from that time period, especially Customs.

Hope that this post didn't scare you away. Just take your time and you'll find exactly what you're looking for. Good luck and happy hunting!

[wj350]

I just came into this club. Picked up a '97 LP Studio a couple weeks ago off the 'bay. I'm very pleased with her....I had an Epi LP Classic which scratched my LP itch for a long time, but I kind of yearned for the Gibson package.

Though 11 years old, this guitar is almost like new, even the gold hardware still looks new. She is a bit heavy though, heavier than the Epi as well.

Bill

[86kubicki]

Great info everyone - thanks! It confirms as much as I suspected - play before you buy, and give the guitar a GOOD once over.

[tamborineman]

Sorry to hear your story, Mike. I'm suprized that they let stuff leave thier `custom shop` like that. I did get a Hummingbird acustic guitar recently from M.F. that was a great guitar except for wavey [soft mohogany again?] mohogany sides on the lower bout. But man it had a great neck with excellent fretwork. Unfortunatly, I had to send it back.
I do have a friend who has an outstanding pre-enjoyed, 335 Historic, natural finnish lots of figure, in his shop. I think the price is $2295. e-mail me if interested.

[peewee]

Sorry to hear your story, Mike. I'm suprized that they let stuff leave thier `custom shop` like that. I did get a Hummingbird acustic guitar recently from M.F. that was a great guitar except for wavey [soft mohogany again?] mohogany sides on the lower bout. But man it had a great neck with excellent fretwork. Unfortunatly, I had to send it back.
I do have a friend who has an outstanding pre-enjoyed, 335 Historic, natural finnish lots of figure, in his shop. I think the price is $2295. e-mail me if interested.

Thanks for the offer, Hank. I played around with my 335 this afternoon and had to give the rod another half turn - the bow had returned. The fretborad was also extremely dry so I had to hit it twice with Fret Doctor; it soaked up every bit of bore oil that I applied. I've got it set up right now to where I'm going to use it on my gig tonight just to see how well it handles a gigging situation.

I think that with a little work I can salvage this guitar, but for the cash that was shelled out I shouldn't have to do squat to it except set it up to my personal preference. I've a mail in to Phil about having it analyzed on his PLEK machine next Saturday to see if there's an area of high frets that needs to be addressed. If that's the case then a levelling, crown & dress should get me to where I want to be. If they would fret the board after gluing it to the neck, I think they'd have fewer instances of something like this happening. They've been doing it this way for a very long time and I don't think they plan on changing their method anytime soon.

It's really a drag because the guitar has a big, woody tone and is very resonant both acoustically and amplified. However, I'm still very dissatisfied with the current state of QC in Nashville and stand by my statement that this will be the last new Gibby I ever buy.

[mfb]

Hmm, I've had Gibsons since '72, yes, the quality of finish today is hit and miss but even back then in the Norlin period, compared to other electrics they were still the ants pants.

Although quality of finish has been up and down all over the place since the '80's, I have never struck one that was a bad player - even the "cheaper" juniors and specials are great little players, and I don't think I'm that lucky (but maybe I am!).

[tamborineman]

Update; I got a deal I couldn't pass up on a '58 Les Paul Junior VOS ,TV yellow, wheat color really. An awsome guitar in every way! Being a VOS it has a very slightly aged finnish, not at all a relic. It came with a perfect set up, ready to rock. This guitar is in every way as good as the original I foolishly sold fifteen years ago. Totally playable right up to the 22nd fret. What does it sound like? Listen to Missisippi Queen by Mountain. Not a cheap guitar but in comparision to a LP Standard, a bargain! Some might call it a one trick pony but what a trick! Hey, I know I'm using a lot of 's Glad to report Gibson is doing SOME things right.